Panasonic rumors getting interesting

[Telecaster]

Personally hate variable aperture zooms and 28 is just not wide enough for me.

That's fine. I'm advocating for more options, not replacement ones. In particular: high-end quality smaller, lighter, slower zooms.

-Dave-

[davidgp]

Sigma confirms a new Full Frame Foveon camera with L mount, together with an SA-L and EF-L adapter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/4798649806/sigma-to-take-foveon-full-frame-and-move-to-l-mount

[Kirk_C]

Sigma confirms a new Full Frame Foveon camera with L mount, together with an SA-L and EF-L adapter: https://www.dpreview.com/news/4798649806/sigma-to-take-foveon-full-frame-and-move-to-l-mount

Now we're talking !!!

It will be interesting to see what they're done with the Foveon to bring it to FF.

[adam tracksler]

Now we're talking !!!

It will be interesting to see what they're done with the Foveon to bring it to FF.

If it can tether to LR or C1 or at least process the RAW files, it would be a contender!

[BernardLanguillier]

Now we're talking !!!

It will be interesting to see what they're done with the Foveon to bring it to FF.

I hope that they went back to a true foveon merril approach and not the quattro like sensor. I didn’t keep mine very long.

A 24mp true Foveon sensor with top lenses would be very appealing. Base ISO only, ideally max 50.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Kirk_C]

I hope that they went back to a true foveon merril approach and not the quattro like sensor. I didn’t keep mine very long.

That's exactly my point, ...it's going to be interesting to see...

I'm hoping they learned their lesson with the quattro. It had to be a complete failure financially while the DPs are still in demand in the used market.

Many interesting products still to be introduced in the next day(s). Particularly the Broncolor announcement tomorrow.

[Dan Wells]

Specs, much less actual images, are scarce... The few available pieces of info suggest a rather odd camera. Every site that's seen the mockup mentions that it's big and heavy, and state that it's larger and heavier than a GH5... By how much? The Leica SL is mirrorless (and not medium format), but it's the size and weight of a D850. Is the S1/S1r in that class, or is it somewhere in between the larger of the ordinary-sized mirrorless cameras (the GH5 is the largest of a class that includes the A9, A7rIII, Z6/Z7, EOS-R, X-H1 and E-M1 mk II) and the D850/Leica SL  class?

It seems to have no phase-detect AF - an odd choice in a world where phase-detect performance on mirrorless cameras is increasing so rapidly. As to be expected from  a Panasonic, video features look excellent - 4kP60, although with no mention of data rate (and the SD slot hanging around concerns me on that account - only the very highest-end SD cards can keep up with the GH5, and any hope for a much higher data rate seems to be quashed by the SD slot unless there are some video modes that are XQD only).

The two most important questions are going to be the quality of the sensor, and of the lenses. Is the (Samsung? Panasonic?) sensor going to be comparable in quality to the Sony sensors in the same pixel-count range? The EOS 5Ds (the only camera we've seen with a very high resolution non-Sony sensor)  was a disappointment in this regard. While its resolution is superb, its dynamic range and noise capabilities are quite a bit lower than the Sony-sensor alternatives, including the older generation of 36 MP sensors as well as the newest 42-46 MP generation. Will the new sensor be similar to the Sonys? More like the Canon 50 MP sensor? Possibly even better than the current Sony sensors (unlikely - I would expect that anything that significantly outperforms the A7rIII sensor and the D850/Z7 sensor would require a 16-bit ADC, and there's no sign of one here)?

I haven't seen anything about the Leica SL lenses that justifies their size, weight or cost.  While Sigma Art lenses are nearly always big and heavy, you get a lot of performance for the weight...Will the new Panasonic-branded lenses be a more compact option while maintaining quality? Another line of reasonably priced, but heavy lenses to go with the Sigmas (which I'm assuming will show up on L-mount pretty quickly)? More expensive lenses like the Leicas? A line of cheap consumer zooms? I hope for the first option...

[DP]

Yes, it is a compact super high quality lens.

it is not compact, it is big for it's aperture and "mirrorless system whose compactness should be a major aspect."... but no - Nikon decided to make big lenses to achieve "better" images from the said lens - so why do you have issues with Panasonic here, but not w/ Nikon ? you have issues with bulky 2.8 zooms but not with bulky 1.8 primes ? do you expect Nikon to deliver less bulky 2.8 zooms ?

[DP]

The Nikkor Z 35mm f1.8 isn't compact, but it is only 86mm long and weighs in at only 370g (vs 60mm and 340g for the Zeiss Loxia 35mm f/2). Sigma seems to think we need a 40mm f/1.4 lens that weighs 1200g and is 131mm long... and that's the DSLR version, add some weight and length for mirrorless?

the issue is not with Sigma - the issue is that prev. poster was OK with big lenses for dSLMs from C&N, but strangely not with big lenses from Panasonic... that's it.

[BernardLanguillier]

it is not compact, it is big for it's aperture and "mirrorless system whose compactness should be a major aspect."... but no - Nikon decided to make big lenses to achieve "better" images from the said lens - so why do you have issues with Panasonic here, but not w/ Nikon ? you have issues with bulky 2.8 zooms but not with bulky 1.8 primes ? do you expect Nikon to deliver less bulky 2.8 zooms ?

The definition of what is compact or not compact is obviously subjective. I find the bulk of the Nikon S 35mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.8 to be compact enough.

What is clear is that a high quality 24-70mm f2.8 zoom lens is going to be significantly more bulky than a high quality f1.8 prime lens. And who needs average quality f2.8 zooms?

Now, it appears that Pana is in fact releasing a 24-105 f4, not a 24-70 f2.8, which makes a lot more sense to me as a first lens.

Cheers,
Bernard

[DP]

The definition of what is compact or not compact is obviously subjective. I find the bulk of the Nikon S 35mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.8 to be compact enough.

there is nothing subjective here : FE 55/1.8 is an example of way more compact lens (49mm + 64.4 x 70.5 mm + 281 g) vs Z 50/1.8 (62mm + 76 x 86.5 mm + 415 g) .. it is humongous 1.8 lens... humongous certainly for a reason - Nikon clearly and rightfully does not care about "compactness should be a major aspect", and so Panasonic has their own reasons to start with the lenses they started with and their are no less valid than Nikon's or Canon's... at least Panasonic is not saving on memory card slots 

[BernardLanguillier]

there is nothing subjective here : FE 55/1.8 is an example of way more compact lens (49mm + 64.4 x 70.5 mm + 281 g) vs Z 50/1.8 (62mm + 76 x 86.5 mm + 415 g) .. it is humongous 1.8 lens... humongous certainly for a reason - Nikon clearly and rightfully does not care about "compactness should be a major aspect", and so Panasonic has their own reasons to start with the lenses they started with and their are no less valid than Nikon's or Canon's... at least Panasonic is not saving on memory card slots 

What you need to compare is the size of the FE 55/1.8, Z 50mm f1.8 and GM 50mm f1.4 from the point of view of size and image quality.

You will understand that the Z 50mm f1.8 is indeed very compact compared to other lenses offering the same level of image quality. Yes, the FE 55mm f1.8 is more compact (about 1.5cm more so) and a very decent lens, but it is not in the same category image qualitywise as the Z.

A 1.5cm difference doesn't really match my understanding of humongous...  but it seems to match yours. This difference of understanding of the meaning of words is objectively subjective.

Note that in the end, contrary to the forecast of our friend Shadowblade who has vanished in the meantime, Panasonic has indeed chosen a strategy similar to that of Nikon with their 24-105mm f4, and not a bulky 24-70mm f2.8. Now, it is true that the 50mm f1.4 is very bulky though so they fall somewhere in between.

Cheers,
Bernard

[davidgp]

What you need to compare is the size of the FE 55/1.8, Z 50mm f1.8 and GM 50mm f1.4 from the point of view of size and image quality.

No GM version of the 50 mm, the f1.4 is a Sony-Zeiss branded one... quite bulky...



http://dgpfotografia.com

[dreed]

Very interesting that Sigma and Panasonic are joining up with Leica on a new full frame mount. That gives all three access to high quality lenses and lets them share the development cost too. This puts all of Sigma's Art, Sports and Consumer lenses into a whole new light as many of those lenses will be able to be converted to L-mount by Sigma.

Any thoughts I had about Canon's EOS R are definitely shelved. Very interested to see what these two deliver in terms of a camera.

[John Camp]

I'm sort of with dreed, but from a Nikon perspective -- I was all hot for the Z7, but now I'm kinda tap-dancing, waiting to see exactly how the Panasonic gets reviewed. I have a large Panasonic m4/3 system and I have to say, I've enjoyed it from the start. I really don't need anything better for what I do, but GAS is GAS. (I point out that there are at least a half-dozen f/0.95 lenses for the m4/3 system, so I'm not wildly impressed that Nikon is going to make one, even though I'm basically a Nikon guy when it comes to FF.)

I gotta say, every time I get on these forums I'm somewhat amused and/or distressed by the ridiculous tech-peeking. All of these new cameras strike me as extraordinary. That dragonfly photo in the link that Bernard put up? You want something better than that? What for? I really doubt that there's *anybody* on these forums who would really need *more* than *any* of these cameras provide. Of course, I did forty years of film photography before we even got to digital, and I thought Kodachrome/F5 was already great.

[JaapD]

This Panasonic camera was almost too good to be true …. until I noticed that it doesn’t have phase detection AF, only contrast detection. I’ve lost my appetite with this.

Regards,
Jaap.

[Rayyan]

The premise was ( at least for me ) that a MILC system would free me from carrying heavy loads across the globe. It is not necessarily the camera body but the system ( lenses and all ).

That is not going to happen if one expects wide ( f1.4 and below ) lenses to be small and perform to what we have become accustomed to on a 35 FF.

Small ( less bulky and lighter than 35FF ) for me currently is a happy compromise of the Fuji x-trans, and XF 23, 35, 50 lenses. Add the XF 14/2.8 for a bit wider fl. But I remain skeptical about X-trans treatment of foliage in certain circumstances.

All this talk about lenses being bulky n heavy...what did one expect?

I shall retain my Nikon Df and my f1.8s. Onto PHOTOKINA 2019!

[DP]

until I noticed that it doesn’t have phase detection AF, only contrast detection.

Panasonic has DFD as their alternative for PDAF... http://eng.faq.panasonic.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/26478/~/what-is-dfd-%28depth-from-defocus%29-technology%3F---dmc-gh4

it does not seems to work as reliably as PDAF and limited only to lenses supported by Panasonic (probably only their own), but still it is not "only contrast detection"

[DP]

What you need to compare is the size of the FE 55/1.8, Z 50mm f1.8 and GM 50mm f1.4 from the point of view of size and image quality.

I exactly do not have a big Sony 1.4 because FE55/1.8 works well and is way smaller and cheaper... Z is a way bigger lens than FE55/1.8 in that quest to get extra few percent of goodness...

You will understand that the Z 50mm f1.8 is indeed very compact

it is a humongous 1.8 lens ... as I noted the reason is to get few percent better results - at no point Nikon was/is after any compactness in Z system - neither with cameras nor with lenses

but it is not in the same category image qualitywise as the Z.

only when you want to invent categories to suit yourself

[BJL]

... Z is a way bigger lens than FE55/1.8 in that quest to get extra few percent of goodness...

it is a humongous 1.8 lens ... as I noted the reason is to get few percent better results - at no point Nikon was/is after any compactness in Z system - neither with cameras nor with lenses

The 24-70/4 and Z bodies themselves seem reasonably compact for the sensor size — but so far that is where it ends. I would like to see something like a 70-200/4 or ??-300/4 zoom lens so as to extend that balance of compactness and performance further into the telephoto range, in addition to the 70-200/2.8 on the current Z lens roadmap. I would also like 24-105/4, 24-120/2.8-4 or such, which would greatly increase the number of outings for which I could leave the telephoto zoom behind.

But why is this discussion in this thread?! Panasonic, take these as suggestions for your L-mount lenses!