Panasonic rumors getting interesting

[shadowblade]

And what do you think drives the consumer market? Do you think Canon would have sold nearly as many low-end Rebels and other crop bodies (inferior in almost all respects to their Nikon counterparts) if it weren't for all the big white lenses and big, red-ringed lenses that the non-photographer public see everywhere?

Supposing that to be true, for the sake of argument, it bodes well for the sales of consumer-level Canon MILC, since those pros with their big white lenses will still be there at the court-side for some time to come.

I suspect the EOS R will do very well, partly because Canon is a known quantity with universal brand recognition in photography, but also because the EOS R with 24-105 kit lens is a solid, if unspectacular mirrorless product for the enthusiast market, effectively being a 5D4 updated for the mirrorless age, with its chief downside - a single card slot - being less of a handicap for this group of users than for paid shooters or higher-end users.

[davidgp]

I find it sad that only Leica had the 'courage' to design lenses of a non-conformist range. IMO, Leica SL's 24-90 and 90-280 are much more convenient ranges than 'classic' 24-70 and 70-200. Variable aperture would be fine for me as well.

Yes, those ranges look more interesting to me...



http://dgpfotografia.com

[shadowblade]

Yes, those ranges look more interesting to me...



http://dgpfotografia.com

Variable aperture in that focal length range kills it.

When shooting quickly, at a number of different focal lengths to compose for the same subject in different ways, or in a setting with lots of different subjects but constant lighting, it is very frustrating to set your aperture and exposure for one focal length, only to have it change once you zoom in or out.

If you're shooting slowly and deliberately, it probably isn't an issue, but that effectively limits it to static subjects and low-pressure shooting.

[davidgp]

Variable aperture in that focal length range kills it.

When shooting quickly, at a number of different focal lengths to compose for the same subject in different ways, or in a setting with lots of different subjects but constant lighting, it is very frustrating to set your aperture and exposure for one focal length, only to have it change once you zoom in or out.

If you're shooting slowly and deliberately, it probably isn't an issue, but that effectively limits it to static subjects and low-pressure shooting.

The key words in my comment were "for me". I'm mainly doing landscape, usually at f8, the variable aperture will be an issue for me in like 1% of my photographs... and the extra range without changing lenses will be more useful for me. So, again, for me, the drawbacks are none.

[davidgp]

No more rumors... the L alliance it is official now: https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/25/panasonic-leica-sigma-l-mount-alliance/

Let's see if Panasonic announces now their rumored camera.

[Christopher]

Honestly, I'm watching the live stream right now and it looks great. Let's wait for the price and how it works, but specs wise it shames both canon and Nikon.

[davidgp]

Honestly, I'm watching the live stream right now and it looks great. Let's wait for the price and how it works, but specs wise it shames both canon and Nikon.

Yes, it is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuxXBRLaqyw

[davidgp]

From what I'm seeing on the screencast... probably missing a lot of things:

- Two cameras: S1R (47MPx) and S1 (24MPx)
- Contrast AF.DFD (this is the same as GH5, I think it could be the weakest point of the camera)
- Video 4k60P
- Two card slots, one XQD and one SD
- In body IS
- 3 axis tiltable LCD
- Weather proof

Three lenses Lumix at launch time (I think release date it is Q1 2019):

- 50mm f1.5
- 24-105mm
- 70-200mm

10 more lenses before the end of 2020 (Lumix lenses... there is also the Leica lenses that are compatible with the camera and whatever Sigma releases).

I didn't see any mention to the global shutter sensor (I couldn't watch the whole presentation... so maybe I missed it).

EDIT: More info: https://www.l-rumors.com/these-are-the-new-panasonic-sr1-and-s1-full-frame-cameras/
EDIT 2: More info:
 - https://www.dpreview.com/news/3187253376/panasonic-s1-and-s1r-what-we-know-so-far
 - https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-s1r/panasonic-s1rA.HTM

[BernardLanguillier]

Honestly, I'm watching the live stream right now and it looks great. Let's wait for the price and how it works, but specs wise it shames both canon and Nikon.

Video wise, as expected it should be great, for still, the only aspect that I find superior to the Z is the double memory slot.

The lens announced seem very middle of the road, the access to SL lenses is irrelevant considering their bulk, cost and not that amazing level of performance.

All in all, I don't really get the hype.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Christopher]

Well, we’ll see but honestly it is a great choice. Especially as it will take all of them a while to get a good lens line up. Neither canon or Nikon managed that.

On the other side all of them aren’t really interesting when I can have much better IQ with the new GFX and not much more weight.


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[davidgp]

Video wise, as expected it should be great, for still, the only aspect that I find superior to the Z is the double memory slot.

The lens announced seem very middle of the road, the access to SL lenses is irrelevant considering their bulk, cost and not that amazing level of performance.

All in all, I don't really get the hype.

Cheers,
Bernard

For me the hype it is Panasonic going to FF market together with Leica and Sigma. That it is quite interesting for the camera ecosystem. I see the same level of hype or non-hype as Nikon or Canon announcements. New mirrorless system (or maybe old if we consider it is Leica SL system), some first new lenses and the promises of more lenses in the future.

[BJL]

Variable aperture in that focal length range kills it.

Several posts have expressed disdain for variable aperture zoom lenses, even apparently for f/2.8-4 ones like the Leica 24-90/2.8-4. I do not see how this is inferior to a constant f/4 (e.g. Nikon's 24-70/4), so is the complaint just about speed: not being constant f/2.8, or f/2 (or f/1.7 in the forthcoming Panasonic 10-25/1.7)?

Or is it a hangover of the long-ago resolved problem that on purely mechanically coupled lenses, the f-stop varied as one zoomed, and so did not match the value on the aperture ring except at minimum focal length? Staying at f/4 or above on a f/2.8-4 solve that, and leaves one no worse off than with a constant f/4.

Or is it — as with Nikon's new f/4 zoom and f/1.8 primes — that some people have it stuck in their minds that such lenses are also inferior designs in other ways, because that used to be the case?

[BernardLanguillier]

FI see the same level of hype or non-hype as Nikon or Canon announcements. New mirrorless system (or maybe old if we consider it is Leica SL system), some first new lenses and the promises of more lenses in the future.

I agree that more diversity is good, no question here. What I don't see is what this adds to the table that other players don't already do or have announced they will do in a more appealing way?

Well, at least Nikon and Canon are proposing some clearly unique lenses and their mount characteristic has the potential to help design better optics. In the end it's all about lenses.

From an AF standpoint, I have never heard great things about the GH5 be it for still or video.

At least they do have IBIS, which is a good thing obviously.

Even if you start from scratch with no existing lens investment in any system, how does the past track record of Panasonic in the still segment motivate you to invest a large amount in this system over Sony, Nikon or Canon? Since it probably doesn't, then what spec of the announced lenses or body does that?

Cheers,
Bernard

[armand]

That 24-105 F2.8 is interesting. I thought it will be huge considering the Leica 24-90 but unless the scale in those shots is off it looks quite manageable.

[BernardLanguillier]

That 24-105 F2.8 is interesting. I thought it will be huge considering the Leica 24-90 but unless the scale in those shots is off it looks quite manageable.

Who said it is an 24-105 f2.8?

The Panasonic slide doesn't specify the opening of the 24-105 and 70-200.

Cheers,
Bernard

[davidgp]

Well, at least Nikon and Canon are proposing some clearly unique lenses and their mount characteristic has the potential to help design better optics. In the end it's all about lenses.

Yes, it is all lenses... I don't see bad start options from Panasonic. With difference of Canon and Nikon they can not use adapted lenses from MFT (well, they can, but with reduced resolution if they make an adapter). Panasonic is releasing some typical and very used zooms and a prime, it is a good start for those that can not afford Leica alternatives.

From an AF standpoint, I have never heard great things about the GH5 be it for still or video.

At least they do have IBIS, which is a good thing obviously.

Yes, as I commented the AF could be the weak point in Panasonic offering. It is my understanding that firmware updates improved the AF system in the GH5 (since it is all done in software), but not sure if it is enough to make a Contrast AF system as quick as a PDAF system or as smooth as Canon Dual Pixel...

Even if you start from scratch with no existing lens investment in any system, how does the past track record of Panasonic in the still segment motivate you to invest a large amount in this system over Sony, Nikon or Canon?

Well, starting from scratch I will be carefully considering buying any of Canon, Nikon or Panasonic new systems. I didn't jump ship to Sony mirrorless system until I saw that they have natively all possible lenses that I wanted to use.

Panasonic is very well loved for video people, I think they are going to first make GH5 and G9 owners to think to jump FF with their system, instead to going to something like an Sony A7s and them, building the system to attract more users to it. I don't think they will be trying to become market leaders.

Also, don't forget Sigma... They announced that they plan to release cameras for this system, it will be interesting to have lenses that can be used with a foveon type camera.

[davidgp]

Who said it is an 24-105 f2.8?

The Panasonic slide doesn't specify the opening of the 24-105 and 70-200.

Cheers,
Bernard

I cann't locate the article now, but DPReview was saying that... although I think it was a typo on their side...

[D Fuller]

I agree that more diversity is good, no question here. What I don't see is what this adds to the table that other players don't already do or have announced they will do in a more appealing way?

Well, at least Nikon and Canon are proposing some clearly unique lenses and their mount characteristic has the potential to help design better optics. In the end it's all about lenses.

From an AF standpoint, I have never heard great things about the GH5 be it for still or video.

At least they do have IBIS, which is a good thing obviously.

Even if you start from scratch with no existing lens investment in any system, how does the past track record of Panasonic in the still segment motivate you to invest a large amount in this system over Sony, Nikon or Canon? Since it probably doesn't, then what spec of the announced lenses or body does that?

Cheers,
Bernard

For video shooters (and Panasonic has a lot of those) FF with 60fps 4K is a big deal, especially if you assume 10-bit internal recording.

[BernardLanguillier]

For video shooters (and Panasonic has a lot of those) FF with 60fps 4K is a big deal, especially if you assume 10-bit internal recording.

Yes, for sure.

Cheers,
Bernard

[armand]

Who said it is an 24-105 f2.8?

The Panasonic slide doesn't specify the opening of the 24-105 and 70-200.

Cheers,
Bernard

I've seen it like that on one of the sites, can't find it now. It does make sense that it's not a 2.8 though with that size.