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Author Topic: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses  (Read 2000 times)

FabienP

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2018, 08:27:00 PM »

I agree that the software side should get more attention. Today software is as vital as hardware. The image quality of the mobile phones is for a large part due to the quality of the software.
When i have a look at Nikon- the software and wireless connectivity is years behind.
Putting android in a camera might not be so easy to do. It is Googles software, not free and not open for drastic changes that are required to adapt it to camera's.

Several sources mentioned that Sony a7 cameras were in fact using Android as an OS, at least to run the applications that can be installed on MK I and II models (see here). Since these applications are no longer available on newer models, this might have changed lately.

Android has an open source implementation (AOSP) which would be suitable for such projects, though it lacks some closed source bits found on Google Play services typically found on phones.

Cheers,

Fabien
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2018, 04:14:50 AM »

Several sources mentioned that Sony a7 cameras were in fact using Android as an OS, at least to run the applications that can be installed on MK I and II models (see here). Since these applications are no longer available on newer models, this might have changed lately.

Android has an open source implementation (AOSP) which would be suitable for such projects, though it lacks some closed source bits found on Google Play services typically found on phones.

Cheers,

Fabien

Yes, but notice what my point was regarding using Android.

m.heijkoop

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2018, 04:21:36 AM »

"So, letís not forget to put a lot of this technical stuff aside and go out and take some pictures.  Just about every camera out there is capable of making great images.  I have not had anyone but other photographers ask me what I shot an image with.  The camera is not going to make your photos better, only you can do that."

Wise words, we are not at war but technology has so much to offer that it is up to us to enjoy good photography!
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davidgp

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2018, 08:18:42 AM »

Several sources mentioned that Sony a7 cameras were in fact using Android as an OS, at least to run the applications that can be installed on MK I and II models (see here). Since these applications are no longer available on newer models, this might have changed lately.

Android has an open source implementation (AOSP) which would be suitable for such projects, though it lacks some closed source bits found on Google Play services typically found on phones.

Cheers,

Fabien

I suspect all system is still based on Android but I highly doubt Sony allows third party to program anything to it, specailly after closing the App Store in version III. Even if it is based on Open Source software, it does not mean it is open to other people to tinker with it.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2018, 01:41:58 PM »

A perhaps irrelevant, even impertinent, question, but anyone else seeing ads on Kevin's video?
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Kevin Raber

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2018, 03:11:45 PM »

If you are seeing ads it is because we published this video on YouTube.  If you are a premium or other type of member on youtube you may not see ads.  We use Youtube for these kinds of videos to cut down the bandwidth on the site.  The next set of videos will all be published through Wistia on our site.
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Kevin Raber
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2018, 04:19:07 PM »

Thanks, Kevin.  No worries.
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Zathras

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2018, 10:46:28 AM »

Two of the misses mentioned don't bother me at all. Others will disagree.

Dual card slots. The likelihood of cameras this small having two completely separate slots is pretty slim. So if one goes down, so does the other. As for two cards failing, that would be a benefit. But if the camera still uses SD cards, that is an issue. XQD cards are much more reliable. (Nikon UK saw one single card failure in all of last year.)

So it doesn't bother me.

Laptops losing SD card slots? Yeah, that would be an issue for me, but the thing is, you can't change them. And with ATECH coming out with amazing Thunderbolt 3 card readers, I'm not so bothered. They will be faster than built-in SD card slots. And they are replaceable without major surgery. So it's a non-issue for me.

Good list of plusses and minuses.
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DP

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2018, 11:58:31 AM »

XQD cards are much more reliable. (Nikon UK saw one single card failure in all of last year.)

XQD numbers vs SD numbers + UK market vs worldwide + 1 year = now that is a great stats  ;D , no just consider if XQD cards manufacturers & users will be more later down the road
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Dr. Egon Milas

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2018, 12:48:19 AM »

If you are seeing ads it is because we published this video on YouTube.  If you are a premium or other type of member on youtube you may not see ads.  We use Youtube for these kinds of videos to cut down the bandwidth on the site.  The next set of videos will all be published through Wistia on our site.

But they are not downloadable.  :(
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2018, 12:50:38 AM »

XQD numbers vs SD numbers + UK market vs worldwide + 1 year = now that is a great stats  ;D , no just consider if XQD cards manufacturers & users will be more later down the road

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

Jeremy
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MatthewSaville

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2018, 07:26:35 PM »

Weight savings? Get low focal length primes at F4 or slower. The weight savings of mirrorless with fast and/or long lenses is a myth.
The bottom line is this: whatever the exact measurement of the "weight savings" is for a FF MILC versus a FF DSLR, ...it's (almost always) far LESS than the difference compared to 1.) going with a smaller sensor overall, 2.) going with a smaller aperture, and sometimes even, 3.) going with lesser overall quality. (flimsy camera body, soft-cornered optics, etc.)

In short, if you truly need portability then you ought to consider giving up the FF sensor altogether, or adding an APS-C or M43 kit to your arsenal.
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MatthewSaville

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2018, 07:42:34 PM »

Kevin, Thanks for the article.  Very informative. The really big deal for me (as one who shot with the Canon 1Ds series for years) is the use of the older sensor technology, which you mentioned in your article.  What are they thinking? The Sony sensor......or equivalent, runs circles around the Canon sensor. I think they will eventually get their feature set going in the right direction but the sensor must go through a revolutionary update for me to ever consider them again.  I do use some Canon glass with my Sony A7r ll.
I think that the 5Dmk4 sensor is as big of a leap forward as Canon could have been expected to pull off, as one of their very first sensors with on-chip ADC, after the "dark ages" of literally a decade of base ISO dynamic range hitting a brick wall at around the ~12 EV mark.

It closed the gap enough that I can go back to recommending that people consider other merits of a system as a whole, when deciding on a camera, instead of strictly admonishing everyone to just pick between Nikon or Sony if they're a landscape photographer.

It's a shame that Canon didn't take the next step, and make a whole new, same-resolution ~30 MP sensor that had another EV of base ISO DR, and slightly more competitive high ISO image quality, but honestly, I think Canon is likely saying, "at least we didn't put the 6Dmk2 sensor in it!"

It has been their tactic for many generations now, (indeed, since the days of the 1Ds's) to reserve the best technology for their most flagship offerings. In other words, the camera that will truly compete with the Sony A7R3, and the Nikon D850/Z7, will likely cost $3500+...

To stick with Canon now is to accept this one down-side of being the #1 market share brand.

That's not to say folks shouldn't loudly proclaim the urgent need for Canon to do better at this ~$2300 price point, and do it soon. They needed an absolute show-stopper as their first FF MILC, and to "kill" the A7iii (and hopefully stop ship-jumping dead in its tracks, at this price range) ...would have required dual SD card slots, IBIS, and un-cropped 4K video. Had they done those three things, I think this 5D4 sensor plus the noticeably improved DPAF (though not in Servo mode, I suppose) would have been more than enough to do the trick.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 07:51:05 PM by MatthewSaville »
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BJL

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2018, 08:57:40 PM »

The bottom line is this: whatever the exact measurement of the "weight savings" is for a FF MILC versus a FF DSLR, ...it's (almost always) far LESS than the difference compared to 1.) going with a smaller sensor overall, 2.) going with a smaller aperture, and sometimes even, 3.) going with lesser overall quality. (flimsy camera body, soft-cornered optics, etc.)

In short, if you truly need portability then you ought to consider giving up the FF sensor altogether, or adding an APS-C or M43 kit to your arsenal.

I made similar comments in another thread, adding what for my main uses is the biggest weight saver of all: good IS, which these days seems to mean IBIS, or better yet, hybrid lens-body IS.
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126656.msg1068369#msg1068369
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jeremyrh

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2018, 06:49:57 AM »

I don't think Android would require changes to itself to run in a camera. It already runs in tons of cameras called smartphones. The camera already runs on an OS, just not Android. Btw. there already is a software addon to some Canon cameras https://www.magiclantern.fm, but what I'm advocating is a much wider software architecture that allows apps in the camera that not only controls it but also adds the infrastructure to share, upload, edit etc. and with the help pf a mobil device as well. It would be a quantum leap from where we are today.

Well it looks like someone was listening to you, judging by the new Zeiss offering!!
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2018, 03:49:18 PM »

Well it looks like someone was listening to you, judging by the new Zeiss offering!!

Thanks Jeremy, https://www.dpreview.com/news/3430444458/zeiss-announces-full-frame-compact-with-fixed-35mm-f2-lens/1 and I was positively surprised about this. I did not see a comment about an app store approach so that others could offer a similar shooting, editing and sharing experience, but that seems fairly obvious to come with this approach they have taken. Great to see a company thinking out of the box! I could be tempted to buy one of their cameras just to support their vision. So I guess we can conclude it is possible to get Android on a camera :)

LimbicSystemPhotoworks

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2018, 12:10:56 AM »

Do we know if this camera has a built in intervalometer?
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Jerry Cagle
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MatthewSaville

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2018, 09:55:10 PM »

Do we know if this camera has a built in intervalometer?
The EOS R does not have an interval timer. I thought it had a built-in timelapse mode (where it creates a single video file) but I can't find that in the menu right now, so maybe I imagined it...
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LimbicSystemPhotoworks

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2018, 10:42:50 PM »

The EOS R does not have an interval timer. I thought it had a built-in timelapse mode (where it creates a single video file) but I can't find that in the menu right now, so maybe I imagined it...

Too bad, so sad.  Perhaps down the road...
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Jerry Cagle
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