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Author Topic: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses  (Read 1999 times)

Kevin Raber

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Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« on: September 13, 2018, 01:09:51 PM »

I just published a new article and video on the Hits And Misses of the NEW Canon R camera.  You can find it on our HOME PAGE.
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Kevin Raber
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Gordon Buck

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 02:28:20 PM »

Didn't Canon say that although the R sensor had the same number of pixels as the EOS 5D Mark IV, it was indeed a new sensor?
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Gordon
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2018, 02:59:26 PM »

Hi,

Just to say, Phase One cameras did do nice with a single card slot for many years. Do I think a dual cards are an advantage? Certainly so! But we did do without dual card slots for many years.

Best regards
Erik

I just published a new article and video on the Hits And Misses of the NEW Canon R camera.  You can find it on our HOME PAGE.
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ramoruso

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2018, 03:16:14 PM »

Thanks for the article Kevin. As a long-time Canon user I am hoping they can come out with a high-res (50mp) mirrorless that has all your hits and misses turned to hits. Then they will have something I will consider. For the time being Sony A7RIII with Metabones for EF lenses and the two native E-Mount lenses (16-35mm G Series and 28-75mm Tamron) I own. The big allure of mirrorless is weight savings, but really for the SOny lenses that is not true. Canon EF to Sony E-Mount lenses are near the same in weight. A7RIII somewhat lighter than a Canon 5DSR. IMO, a Canon Mirrorless with EF Mount and all the technology hits gets my vote as something I would look for. In the meantime, I am happy with the Sony.
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Rado

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2018, 03:38:17 PM »

Kevin when you do further testing please also test 3rd party (Sigma etc) EF lenses with the adapter, especially autofocus. If the R can nail autofocus at 85mm/1.4 anywhere in the frame that will be a great thing for me.
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adias

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2018, 05:07:04 PM »

Thanks for the article Kevin. As a long-time Canon user I am hoping they can come out with a high-res (50mp) mirrorless that has all your hits and misses turned to hits. Then they will have something I will consider. For the time being Sony A7RIII with Metabones for EF lenses and the two native E-Mount lenses (16-35mm G Series and 28-75mm Tamron) I own. The big allure of mirrorless is weight savings, but really for the SOny lenses that is not true. Canon EF to Sony E-Mount lenses are near the same in weight. A7RIII somewhat lighter than a Canon 5DSR. IMO, a Canon Mirrorless with EF Mount and all the technology hits gets my vote as something I would look for. In the meantime, I am happy with the Sony.

Weight savings? Get low focal length primes at F4 or slower. The weight savings of mirrorless with fast and/or long lenses is a myth.
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DaveCurtis

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 06:11:45 PM »

Tend to agree on the weight savings comment. Full frame anything = big and heavy. Especially if you want quality or fast glass. eg Sony GM.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2018, 10:25:59 PM »

Hi Kevin,

Thanks.

How would you rate the viewfinder compared to your Sony a7rIII?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard

nigeldh

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2018, 11:43:41 PM »

1. Looking at the size of the camera, and especially the lenses, plus frame rate and 4K video, it seems that Canon is still paving a cow path, just a mirrorless cow path. Although some sites say that the larger size of the Nikon and Canon mirrorless mounts allow for physically larger future sensors.
Speaking of camera size, back in the film days my father preferred Nikon's larger size over the size of my Olympus OM cameras. So maybe Canon knows something I don't.

2. The lens adapters, especially the one with the filters, are a great idea. Hint to Metabones. But delivery in the spring leaves something to be desired. Too bad that idea can't be used at the back of native mount lenses.

3. I switched from Canon 7D to Sony A7RII because of IBIS. I also could use an adapter for my herd of EOS mount lenses. With a tilt/sift lens speed of auto focus doesn't matter. grin  But having focus peaking allows one to see the effect of tilt and shift.


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Dave (Isle of Skye)

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 06:20:48 AM »

Good video review Kevin, in fact no it wasn't just good, it was excellent..

The top takeaway feature of the 'R' to me is that the sensor automatically covers itself up when a lens is dismounted, this is a truly brilliant idea from Canon and will really take the reluctance and worry out of swapping lenses out in the field and hopefully all the other manufacturers will adopt this idea as quickly as possible, so Bravo Canon on that one..!

But as I use all manual setting all of the time, the rest of the bells and whistles, such as IBIS, focus tracking and video etc, etc, etc, does not interest me in the least, and on any camera Sony or otherwise - didn't Michael once advocate that camera manufactures should incorporate an advanced button on their cameras, so that once you press it, everything is then turned off and the camera drops straight into fully manual mode?

So for my type of landscape work, it all comes down to the quality of the sensor and the noise to signal ratio of the files, and from what I can ascertain so far about the 'R', is it ain't no Sony beater, in fact it is using old technology from around five years ago and that in today's camera sensor technology development cycle, is like a couple of generations ago.

I so wanted to want this camera, because I have been a Canon shooter for decades and I love 'em and how they work, but the files from the A7R2 are so sweet in comparison, that I could never dream of giving that up now. So unless they (Canon) come out with a sensor that is even sweeter and at least the same mpx as the Sony and Nikon, then I am sticking with my Sony sensor, even though the Sony Camera is a pain in the arse to use sometimes, because the files you can get out of it, are just so sweeeeeet.

Dave
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 06:23:52 AM by Dave (Isle of Skye) »
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2018, 06:51:01 AM »

Weight savings? Get low focal length primes at F4 or slower. The weight savings of mirrorless with fast and/or long lenses is a myth.

I agree. It's not so much the weight savings as a potentially more compact tool. Although, if paired with the new lenses, maybe slightly shorter but the diameter of the lenses is still significant, even with the new optical designs. So, lenses with narrower maximum apertures are needed to keep the size/weight down, which is a possibility because of the ability to focus at very low light levels.

It's more interesting to look at the new (latest technology) lens designs, with new design parameters that produce a large exit pupil diameter.

Cheers,
Bart
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jeremyrh

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 08:26:30 AM »

I am sticking with my Sony sensor, even though the Sony Camera is a pain in the arse to use sometimes,

Sounds like you need to buy the Nikon :-)
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jeremyrh

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2018, 08:28:30 AM »

Weight savings? Get low focal length primes at F4 or slower. The weight savings of mirrorless with fast and/or long lenses is a myth.
And yet when Nikon prioritised exactly this, the critics arranged their armchairs in a line to criticise!!
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2018, 10:10:34 AM »

Weight savings? Get low focal length primes at F4 or slower. The weight savings of mirrorless with fast and/or long lenses is a myth.

Yes, and despite lots of rebuttals on this, this argument gets repeated and repeated. But this does not make this any more true. The weight savings in the camera body is marginal for a full set of lenses and a camera body. The way to save weight is not only to use slower glass but also go down in sensor size with lenses designed for this format. Basically Fuji and m43 cameras.

Hans Kruse

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2018, 10:20:02 AM »

What I find astonishing is the lack of inventions in terms of software in the cameras and interconnectivity with smart phones. When you look at a smart phone and what you can get of different apps and especially Lightroom Mobile it is demonstrated what an open platform for app developpers can provide. Then it is amazing to see that none of the camera manufacturers have adopted a software platform like that. Let's assume that Canon had decided to use Android as the OS in the camera and WiFi and Bluetooth the camera could connect seamlessly with the phone to provide internet connectivity. In this case Adobe could enhance Lightroom Mobile so that you could shoot with the LM camera and develop in camera or in the smart phone and send pictures straight from shooting session. It could also be possible to let LM preview the look of an image before it is shot using e.g. profiles and presets. The possibilities are endless. Other App developpers could develop their shooting app. This would just require a fast computing platform on the camera and access to all features of the camera for App developpers. Canon could and should (f course) provide their own app for shooting. Most likely such an app would be hugely surpassed by App developpers. What would the iPhone have been if it had stayed without the App Store?

kers

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 10:50:01 AM »

What I find astonishing is the lack of inventions in terms of software in the cameras and interconnectivity with smart phones. When you look at a smart phone and what you can get of different apps and especially Lightroom Mobile it is demonstrated what an open platform for app developpers can provide. Then it is amazing to see that none of the camera manufacturers have adopted a software platform like that. Let's assume that Canon had decided to use Android as the OS in the camera and WiFi and Bluetooth the camera could connect seamlessly with the phone to provide internet connectivity. In this case Adobe could enhance Lightroom Mobile so that you could shoot with the LM camera and develop in camera or in the smart phone and send pictures straight from shooting session. It could also be possible to let LM preview the look of an image before it is shot using e.g. profiles and presets. The possibilities are endless. Other App developpers could develop their shooting app. This would just require a fast computing platform on the camera and access to all features of the camera for App developpers. Canon could and should (f course) provide their own app for shooting. Most likely such an app would be hugely surpassed by App developpers. What would the iPhone have been if it had stayed without the App Store?
I agree that the software side should get more attention. Today software is as vital as hardware. The image quality of the mobile phones is for a large part due to the quality of the software.
When i have a look at Nikon- the software and wireless connectivity is years behind.
Putting android in a camera might not be so easy to do. It is Googles software, not free and not open for drastic changes that are required to adapt it to camera's.
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 12:29:20 PM »

I agree that the software side should get more attention. Today software is as vital as hardware. The image quality of the mobile phones is for a large part due to the quality of the software.
When i have a look at Nikon- the software and wireless connectivity is years behind.
Putting android in a camera might not be so easy to do. It is Googles software, not free and not open for drastic changes that are required to adapt it to camera's.

I don't think Android would require changes to itself to run in a camera. It already runs in tons of cameras called smartphones. The camera already runs on an OS, just not Android. Btw. there already is a software addon to some Canon cameras https://www.magiclantern.fm, but what I'm advocating is a much wider software architecture that allows apps in the camera that not only controls it but also adds the infrastructure to share, upload, edit etc. and with the help pf a mobil device as well. It would be a quantum leap from where we are today.

Kevin Raber

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 12:52:14 PM »

Hans, The connectivity of mobile devices to cameras is a major feature every camera manufacturer knows needs to be done.  I have spoken to Leica, Sony, Fuji, and Canon about this.  Canon claims the R camera has good connectivity to mobile devices but I did not get a chance to try it out.  Based on conversations I have had as well as suggestions I have made is that the connectivity is seamless.  Right now to connect to any device is a major challenge in most cases and the connectivity, for the most part, is rather fragile, meaning you can lose the connection without notice.  Wouldn't it be cool if communication with devices was two way and required no intervention by the user?  The camera could pull GPS data from the phone and send images to the phone.

I think the connectivity to devices will be the next big things.  With so much online sharing going on wouldn't it be nice to shoot a photo see it on the device and then go to Instagram or Facebook while you are still at the location?

As far as OS in a camera I doubt you will see that.  I can say that the Light16 has an Android OS and it is painful to use.
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Kevin Raber
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jpaulmoore

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 01:42:58 PM »

Kevin, Thanks for the article.  Very informative. The really big deal for me (as one who shot with the Canon 1Ds series for years) is the use of the older sensor technology, which you mentioned in your article.  What are they thinking? The Sony sensor......or equivalent, runs circles around the Canon sensor. I think they will eventually get their feature set going in the right direction but the sensor must go through a revolutionary update for me to ever consider them again.  I do use some Canon glass with my Sony A7r ll.
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adias

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Re: Just Published - The Canon R Camera Hits and Misses
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2018, 01:56:30 PM »

Kevin, Thanks for the article.  Very informative. The really big deal for me (as one who shot with the Canon 1Ds series for years) is the use of the older sensor technology, which you mentioned in your article.  What are they thinking? The Sony sensor......or equivalent, runs circles around the Canon sensor. I think they will eventually get their feature set going in the right direction but the sensor must go through a revolutionary update for me to ever consider them again.  I do use some Canon glass with my Sony A7r ll.

Why is that? Regarding IBIS, Canons says lens IS can be better and it is true if you understand lens dynamics as a function of focal length. Regarding back-plane illumination... that is a design approach mostly to improve light sensitivity, which is not an issue on this camera and neither is impinging light ray angle.

Technology for technology sake makes no sense. Never did, except in the gadget world, that is.
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