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Author Topic: Can not print large prints Lightroom  (Read 1349 times)

jtremblay

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Can not print large prints Lightroom
« on: September 13, 2018, 09:53:30 am »

Hello to all,
I'm trying to print a large 400mb tif file out of Lightroom 6.8 on an Epson P9000 printer using a Mac OS 10.13.4. The head moves back and forth but no ink comes out. The image size is 38"x76". Epson repair has been at my studio for a couple of days now and thinks it's a Lightroom issue. I was able to print this exact size/file about 2 months ago - then I had a different issue with the printer and Epson came out and while here they updated the firmware on the P9000. They have since loaded older firmware on to the printer, although they are not sure what version of firmware was on there to begin with - so they are guessing at versions. None of the versions have worked - They have never believed it was the firmware that caused the issue -

I can print the file up to a certain size (24"x52") but once I try larger it fails -

I have tried other files at the same 38"x76" size out of LR: same issue. I have tried printing same size/file from Lightroom to a P10000 and it works. I have tried printing same size/file out of CaptureOne to the P9000 and it works. I also tried printing even larger out of LR to see if the template was corrupt some how but that didn't work either. So I can print only so large in LR, then it fails -

The only thing I can think of is that Lightroom's processing engine is more intensive and so with this amount of data for this large a file it fails, while CaptureOne is designed to handle large amounts of data better - but why it was able to do this once before and now can't is a mystery

j
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 10:41:46 am »

I don't know if this would be any help or not, because my printing conditions aren't the same - I'm not printing files with such large linear dimensions, but I am sending files of similar size - 450 MB more or less. I'm printing from LR 7.1 to an Epson SC-P5000 (using Mac OS 10.11.6), which has the same head and inkset as the P9000, but obviously different firmware and smaller linear capacity (17" inch carriage width). So I know at least this version of Lr and printer can print a 450 MB file. From this non-analogous information, it may be reasonable to infer that the problem could be with the linear dimensions rather than the file size.

Have you checked with Adobe to determine whether there is some linear dimension limit on Lr's ability to process large files? If there were such a limit, you'd have your answer. Will be interesting to see from any forthcoming replies whether other members can print files of your linear dimensions from Lr.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2018, 02:48:14 pm »

Hello to all,
I'm trying to print a large 400mb tif file out of Lightroom 6.8 on an Epson P9000 printer using a Mac OS 10.13.4. The head moves back and forth but no ink comes out. The image size is 38"x76". Epson repair has been at my studio for a couple of days now and thinks it's a Lightroom issue. I was able to print this exact size/file about 2 months ago - then I had a different issue with the printer and Epson came out and while here they updated the firmware on the P9000. They have since loaded older firmware on to the printer, although they are not sure what version of firmware was on there to begin with - so they are guessing at versions. None of the versions have worked - They have never believed it was the firmware that caused the issue -

I can print the file up to a certain size (24"x52") but once I try larger it fails -

I have tried other files at the same 38"x76" size out of LR: same issue. I have tried printing same size/file from Lightroom to a P10000 and it works. I have tried printing same size/file out of CaptureOne to the P9000 and it works. I also tried printing even larger out of LR to see if the template was corrupt some how but that didn't work either. So I can print only so large in LR, then it fails -

The only thing I can think of is that Lightroom's processing engine is more intensive and so with this amount of data for this large a file it fails, while CaptureOne is designed to handle large amounts of data better - but why it was able to do this once before and now can't is a mystery

j
I print much larger files and larger prints from Lightroom to a p9000 all the time. The fact that you can print it to a p9000 and not a p10000 indicates it isnít a LR issue.

What DPI setting are you printing from LR?  Also are you trying to use the 16bit option?  LR will choke if you get too large by sending a print at 720DPI and/or 16bit.  Seems odd that it works with the other printer.  I use 360 and 8 bit for the really big prints out of LR.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2018, 03:44:43 pm »

The fact that you can print it to a p9000 and not a p10000 indicates it isnít a LR issue.


As I read his post it seems his situation is the reverse: works for the 10000 but does NOT work the 9000. Anyhow your general logic remains appropriate.

If it's not a firmware issue in the 9000, I'm wondering whether it is a driver setting issue.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2018, 04:01:03 pm »

As I read his post it seems his situation is the reverse: works for the 10000 but does NOT work the 9000. Anyhow your general logic remains appropriate.

If it's not a firmware issue in the 9000, I'm wondering whether it is a driver setting issue.
Thanks mark.  I typed that in wrong, thatís how I read it as well, but the fingers didnít get it right.

I agree, could be a driver problem.

One other thought, this can happen if using the Bonjour connection when setting up the printer.  To test this, open printer preference pane, delete the p9000 printer from the window.  Add the printer again, but after seeing p9000 (Bonjour) appears in the choice list, wait a short time and another choice should appear p9000 (IP) with kind listed as Epson TCPIP. Use that instead.

If that doesnít work, time to try what Digitaldog aptly named it, an Epson Enema
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jtremblay

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 09:01:44 am »

Thanks for the responses; I am indeed printing at 16bit at 360dpi.

As for the linear limitations in Adobe - I printed this exact size print from the same file out of LR a month back to this P9000 printer and it worked fine. I also printed the same file/size to the P10000 printer from LR and it printed fine. So I don't imagine that the limit is the issue.

I have also deleted and added back in the printer from preferences - I am using a direct USB driver. I have done  this several times.

I wonder if the external drive (print manager) that comes with the P10000 is what the difference is - the P9000 does not have this (although it's an option). I asked the Epson Tech guy and he said it prob would not be the difference - but still not convinced)
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jtremblay

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2018, 09:12:54 am »

Epson support took over my mac and did the uninstall/reinstall driver - and this did not work either. He concluded that it was a LR issue since I could print the file at the late size using Preview.

I also tested CaptureOne with the same parameters to the P9000 and it also printed.

Based on this info Epson has concluded that it is a LR issue. I am not convinced since I can print out of LR to the P10000 AND I was able to print out of LR to the P9000 about a month ago - prior to Epson coming out and "fixing" the printer that was having other issues at the time. They replaced the capping station (entire right side of printer) and updated the firmware. They insist the upgraded firmware would not cause this issue.

Epson is coming out again today to replace the NVRam (which keeps getting corrupted for some reason) to fix a paper feed issue I've been having - but that's another story. If this ends up being the culprit I'll post back -
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jtremblay

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 08:21:17 pm »

Epson installed a new motherboard, and new NVRam - the printer appears to be working correctly, but still can not print a large print. I sent the job out of LR at 16bit when it failed. I resent the job at 8bit and it printed. This doesn't surprise me as I can print smaller prints, so it stands to reason the issue is either LR is having an issue sending large amounts of data to the P9000 - OR - The P9000 can't handle large amounts of data being sent to it.

As a side note: I'm printing a TIF out of LR. I printed the RAW file of this image out of CaptureOne and CaptureOne printed at the large size.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2018, 08:32:32 pm »

Normally a raw file of the same image is a fraction of the size of a TIFF file, so you don't have an apples to apples comparison of what is happening in Capture One versus Lightroom by sending a TIFF through one and a raw through the other. It would be MOST useful for pinning this down if you sent the same TIFF file through Capture One. If it prints through Capture One, then you have a pretty good indication that the problem is with Lightroom.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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BAB

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 10:06:54 pm »

Epson support took over my mac and did the uninstall/reinstall driver - and this did not work either. He concluded that it was a LR issue since I could print the file at the late size using Preview.

I also tested CaptureOne with the same parameters to the P9000 and it also printed.

Based on this info Epson has concluded that it is a LR issue. I am not convinced since I can print out of LR to the P10000 AND I was able to print out of LR to the P9000 about a month ago - prior to Epson coming out and "fixing" the printer that was having other issues at the time. They replaced the capping station (entire right side of printer) and updated the firmware. They insist the upgraded firmware would not cause this issue.

Epson is coming out again today to replace the NVRam (which keeps getting corrupted for some reason) to fix a paper feed issue I've been having - but that's another story. If this ends up being the culprit I'll post back -


In others words itís a LR issue since he couldnít fix it! Contact this guy he most likely will solve your problems  evan@aztek.com[/font][/size]

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mcbroomf

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2018, 05:01:24 am »

In your 1st post you say "I was able to print this exact size/file about 2 months ago"

Were there any other edits done on the file since then?
Did you use any compression to save the file?
Does the .tif file have layers (eg an adjustment layer on top?)
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jtremblay

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2018, 02:39:52 pm »

Thanks to everyone who is offering help:

I realized that the RAW file is a fraction of the size compared to the TIF. In fact the RAW file is 138MB and the TIF file is 400MB. I printed the same 400MB TIF file out of both Preview and CaptureOne and both were able to print. I do notice when I print out of CaptureOne it started printing much much faster then when I sent the data out of LR -

I have been using the output resolution out of LR of 2880 so I tried it at 1440 but this made no difference.

The crazy thing is I can print the same 400MB TIF file out of LR to my P10000 printer at the same large size print. Epson says they are different "Beasts" so will not accept this as meaning anything. The P10000 comes with an Internal Print Server (hard drive) and I wonder if that is the difference. I asked Epson this and they said it makes no difference -

If CaptureOne printed as elegantly as LR I'd just use CaptureOne... but their printing is dismal in comparison (as far as setting up templates/settings and actually sticking/working)
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jtremblay

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2018, 02:52:30 pm »

In answer to mcbroomf: I did not do any other edits to this file since I last printed it. I did not use any sort of compression to save the file, and finally the Tif does not have any layers - it's flat.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2018, 02:46:42 am »

Epson says they are different "Beasts" so will not accept this as meaning anything. The P10000 comes with an Internal Print Server (hard drive) and I wonder if that is the difference.
Hard to say.  The p10000 is a 300/600dpi based device as opposed to the p9000 which is a 360/720 dpi device. Not sure how it handles the fact that it receives a 360 dpi file and thus downscales to a 300dpi file. Of course itís also designed for high production print shops and thus the internals are probably significantly more powerful, and might be doing some of the processing that Epson depends on users computers doing with other printers.

I resent the job at 8bit and it printed
Iíve never seen any visual difference between a file sent at 8 bit vs 16 bit. theoretically it seems possible and I suppose if you hunt for it side by side you might find it, but the results at 8 bit should be basically identical. This might also  an anomaly with the file, would be curious if you can print another file of the same size.  Also not sure how much ram your system has, but the symptom you describe is rather odd.  I have seen it a couple of times and itís when the computer choked on the data because the file size (mine struggles with an 84Ē at 360dpi from LR, can only print it at 8 bit.  Might be a relationship of RAM and even affected by something in the OS.

One other thing I might add, although you say itís a 400mb file, if you are telling LR to send a 360 dpi file to the printer that is 76x38Ē, at 16 bit you are dealing with a 2gb file, not a 400mb file.  This is definitely getting into the area that LR can choke. Iím not sure how Capture one is handling this, but it could be relegating the resizing to the driver/OS.  This would be the same as turning of the print resolution checkbox in LR, so LR would send the file but not actually resize it first.  My guess would be this would print from LR, but the end quality might suffer because the output sharpening wouldnít be correct and because LR seems to do a much better job at resizing the image up than whatever resizes the image without LR doing it first (OS or printer driver, seems to be a mystery).
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jtremblay

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2018, 10:17:35 am »

Thanks for your response Wayne - I have thought all along that the issue was in the up-rezing, or rather in the "stuff" that LR does to print at 360 dpi at 16bit at the large size I am attempting.

To answer the question about a possibility of an anomaly with the file; I tried a bunch of different images to eliminate the possibility of the file being corrupt, or in some way compromised, and regardless of the file the P9000 failed to print at this large size.

I will have to test a large print at 8bit vs 16bit next -
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JRSmit

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2018, 01:26:21 pm »

Regardingen file sizes of the spoolfile, i notes sizes up to over 8 GB. Ik use Windows, last year i had problems,  which was caused by a Windows update. Somewhere in the pipeline there was a Filesize of memory size limit.
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John Caldwell

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Re: Can not print large prints Lightroom
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2018, 06:13:40 pm »

Large files often fail me when 16 bit, rather than 8 bit, is chosen at the printer driver level.
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