What should I learn in Photoshop first?

[Rob C]

I know your not much on music analogies, but it's a bit like asking Miles D what instrument you should learn to play first in order to play music like him.

Then he tells you that life is the most important thing to learn and your brain the most important instrument, and he tells you that in a way that will eventually make you realise that it was a stupid question to begin with and the answer was the appropriate answer.

Yes, Oscar, I agree with your analogy, but the thing is, I don't think the person asking the original question was asking the question that provoked the response. Bad connection.

We had a severe storm on Sunday night; Monday I had no Internet connection on the desktop computer, and the online tv service was off, too; my iPad, however, worked perfectly via the router. I spent yesterday afternoon getting into an alarming state of nervous tension as I tried to get two different people on the line provider's (Telefonica) telephone line to help me out. They both made me run through a series of reconnection procedures that I had already tried without their help. I gave up.

This morning, I called back again, and after hanging on for eleven minutes, I was connected with an older voice that made all the difference. I explained the events of the past afternoon, she ran me through the same routine, but this time, instead of pontificating, the lady actually listened to what I was describing, and I now await a call from the tecnicos to come fix or replace the router.

Attitude is vital, and all people connected with PR in any form should be taught that as first step to employment. Maybe the photographer was too up herself to appreciate that basic fact of life.

[32BT]

If he is an arrogant prick, yes.

Or in case he accept the question is raised by a starting musician he could play along or jam a few minutes.

It all start with the acceptance of an equal conversation partner.

Friendly is not necessarily the optimal answer. A horrible divorce for example will likely make for better closure. And yes, that is also appropriate for the example here: if you try to maintain equal level thereby reenforcing someone's incorrect approach, then you are likely not helping and in fact doing them a disservice. It's better to be a prick and making sure the person detaches from fanboyism and then find their own way.

You apparently had children who've been thru puberty, so i'm probably not telling you anything you didn't already know.

[32BT]

Yes, Oscar, I agree with your analogy, but the thing is, I don't think the person asking the original question was asking the question that the response provoked. Bad connection.

We had a severe storm on Sunday night; Monday I had no Internet connection on the desktop computer, and the online tv service was off, too; my iPad, however, worked perfectly via the router. I spent yesterday afternoon getting into an alarming state of nervous tension as I tried to get two different people on the line provider's (Telefonica) telephone line to help me out. They both made me run through a series of reconnection procedures that I had already tried without their help. I gave up.

This morning, I called back again, and after hanging on for eleven minutes, I was connected with an older voice that made all the difference. I explained the events of the past afternoon, she ran me through the same routine, but this time, instead of pontificating, the lady actually listened to what I was describing, and I now await a call from the tecnicos to come fix or replace the router.

Attitude is vital, and all people connected with PR in any form should be taught that as first step to employment. Maybe the photographer was too up herself to appreciate that basic fact of life.

Not the same thing, i think. You are asking for a fish and it is expected they feed you. You're not asking how to fish so you can feed yourself...

[Ivophoto]

Friendly is not necessarily the optimal answer. A horrible divorce for example will likely make for better closure. And yes, that is also appropriate for the example here: if you try to maintain equal level thereby reenforcing someone's incorrect approach, then you are likely not helping and in fact doing them a disservice. It's better to be a prick and making sure the person detaches from fanboyism and then find their own way.

You apparently had children who've been thru puberty, so i'm probably not telling you anything you didn't already know.

Don’t mention the war. 🤫

Is it not awkward to take the standard approach somebody with a question is per definition in the wrong street?
To my experience it are the peoples without questions who are often in the wrong lane.

[JoeKitchen]

I say more, the brain part you need to be an artist is the opposite than the one you need for mathematics

I protest this.  My degrees are in mathematics, and it helps me greatly with my photography.  FYI, I am an architectural photographer and geometry and huge part of my work. 

[RSL]

The main thing to learn about Photoshop is that you should use it as little as possible. We’ve all seen grossly over-processed stuff from Photoshop “experts,” and, one would hope, laughed at the results. Photoshop mainly is there to clean up the built-in deficiencies of cameras. If you can’t focus properly or you can’t work the camera in such a way that the dynamic range of the file coming out of the camera is the best possible, or, most importantly, if you can’t compose a picture properly (leading to a cropping-fest), then no amount of Photoshop proficiency is going to make your work worthwhile.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I protest this.  My degrees are in mathematics, and it helps me greatly with my photography.  FYI, I am an architectural photographer and geometry and huge part of my work.

+1.
I've never been a professional, but my day job was math and computer science for 35 years. That certainly helped many technical aspects of photography, but never got in the way of the "vision thing."

[Rob C]

I protest this.  My degrees are in mathematics, and it helps me greatly with my photography.  FYI, I am an architectural photographer and geometry and huge part of my work.

C'mon, Joe: geometry as a mathematical concept and as a visual one are worlds apart in meaning, understanding and execution; one is about theorems etc. whereas the other has nothing to do with the mathematical interpretation but has everything to do with a sense of artistic balance. You can have the latter without owning the least idea of Pythagoras, trigonometry, algebra or any of the other branches of that particular intellectual tree.

Rob

[Rob C]

+1.
I've never been a professional, but my day job was math and computer science for 35 years. That certainly helped many technical aspects of photography, but never got in the way of the "vision thing."

Exactly, Eric, and as you expressed, "never got in the way" which is tantamount to saying that having the geometry (in its maths incarnation) was something that posed a risk rather than contributed anything positive to art.

Which makes me wonder how that computes with you +1, for it seems to be diametrically opposed in spirit. (Don't you just love how maths can get into everything, bid or otherwise?)

Rob

[Peter McLennan]

With respect, gentlemen: too much pontificating, not enough information.

My answer to the OP, “selections, the curves tool and the histogram”

[JoeKitchen]

C'mon, Joe: geometry as a mathematical concept and as a visual one are worlds apart in meaning, understanding and execution; one is about theorems etc. whereas the other has nothing to do with the mathematical interpretation but has everything to do with a sense of artistic balance. You can have the latter without owning the least idea of Pythagoras, trigonometry, algebra or any of the other branches of that particular intellectual tree.

Rob

So knowing the Golden Ratio and how it is used in building design matters none, along with other dimensional relations?  Being able to read and interoperate building plans, which are quite geometric, is not of great importance?

[JNB_Rare]

It sounds like the person asking the question was hoping to replicate a 'look' that he admired in her pictures. I think she was trying to make the point that it's not simply the processing that sets one's images apart. Post-shot processing is done in service to the photographer's vision/intent for the image. If all one has is a PS-created 'look' or LR 'preset', the images pall pretty quickly.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I posted my last post at 2am this morning, only to wake up to another surprise in the thread: Rob and Ivo apparently have lost their sense of humor, in particular the absurd, paradoxical one 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... My answer to the OP, “selections, the curves tool and the histogram”

Another lost soul.

[JoeKitchen]

First, I am not really sure if the response was the best and most political one.  It could very well be that that person, or friends/family, will be in a position to hire the said photographer at some time and she destroyed all hope of actually getting hired for that potential job. 

Nonetheless this reminds me of the overly asked question of how our images are just so good, it must be the camera you use, right?  I always find this an interesting statement, especially since it is said during a shoot with all the lighting gear out and being used, which is what really makes the image. 

[Peter McLennan]

Another lost soul.

 

[Ivophoto]

So knowing the Golden Ratio and how it is used in building design matters none, along with other dimensional relations?  Being able to read and interoperate building plans, which are quite geometric, is not of great importance?

My commissioned work is real estate as well and understanding the architects artistic vision is key.

It’s the architects role to understand modulus and how to read and make building plans.

Knowledge of photoshop is maybe the second important tool in this discipline , second to properly operating TS glas work.

My technical background is more a burden than a benefit.

My main job is industrial project manager for multi disciplinary projects, my second job, Photography, provides me the balance I need not to go crazy of all this pragmatic stuff. If there was a firm relationship between photography and exact science, I would immediately stop photographing.

(Ok, maybe not...)

[Ivophoto]

I posted my last post at 2am this morning, only to wake up to another surprise in the thread: Rob and Ivo apparently have lost their sense of humor, in particular the absurd, paradoxical one 

Damn. Where are my pills.
Hahaha.

Ha well. I woke up this morning at 6am and while doing what a man had to do first, I checked Lula, and probably I’m not the most humoristique person on the world that early.

Lets check the bathroom floor to find back my sense of humor.

Hehe.

[Rob C]

So knowing the Golden Ratio and how it is used in building design matters none, along with other dimensional relations?  Being able to read and interoperate building plans, which are quite geometric, is not of great importance?

To an architect, surveyor or builder, of immense importance. That you appear to have both maths and artistic eye is a happy coincidence for you.

To me, as a photographer making a picture, none.

I can read plans thanks to technical college and part of my apprenticeship in engineering, but as I'm trying to say, that's all alien to making a visual statement prompted by aesthetics that do not depend on any engineering skills at all. It is not a knocking of such skills but a measure of their redundancy in a photographer's general work. It's all a visual feeling that comes from one's own mind.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I'm trying to say, that's all alien to making a visual statement prompted by aesthetics that do not depend on any engineering skills at all. It is not a knocking of such skills but a measure of their redundancy in a photographer's general work. It's all a visual feeling that comes from one's own mind.

Absolutely disagree.

We are not talking, for example, about math formulas helpful to calculate the square footage of a home we are trying to buy or sell, or any other helpful math skills. We are talking about math that is elegance, that is poetry, that is creativity.

You do not believe math can be elegant and poetic? I participated in my youth in regional math competitions at the level that is not going to ask you what is the square root of 9, for instance, but were presenting math problems in such a way that required elegance and creativity (i.e., finding the quickest and simplest solution). Sometimes, the solutions are so elegant that it amounts to sheer poetry. Those who do or did programming (e.g., Russ) should concur about elegance, I hope.

Once you get a sense what that is (elegance) in school, it stays in your subconscious and surfaces with no particular effort when you start photographing.