Topic: Mirrorless comparison - Does anything announced recently help you? (Read 15441 times)

armand · « **Reply #60 on:** September 12, 2018, 05:54:32 pm »

Quote from: Ray on September 12, 2018, 01:52:39 am

This is similar to the problem that I've experienced when I do a lot of hiking or simply walking around the areas I visit, with camera over shoulder.

The problem could be resolved by sacrificing image quality and buying, for example, a Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 IV superzoom, which would meet most of my requirements in terms of weight and focal length range, with the possible exception of very wide angle requirements which could, however, be met most of the time by stitching images.

I've experienced the benefits of a Nikon DX5300 with 18-140 DX lens, which weighs a total of around 1.1Kg. The Sony RX10 IV also weighs about 1.1Kg, and so does the Nikon Z7 with 24-70/F4 zoom attached. All three systems are the same weight and differ mainly in image quality and zoom range. The longer the zoom range, the lower the quality.

That's the problem I'm tussling with. Should I give up my obsession with technical image quality for the sake of just getting the shot? A shot with the Sony RX10 4, at full focal length, would undoubtedly be better quality than a Z7 shot at 70mm, cropped to a 600mm equivalent. By the time I'd changed lenses on the Z7 to get a 600mm equivalent in DX mode, I would often have lost the shot.

However, the quality of Z7 shots between 24 and 70mm would obviously be much, much better than the other systems at the same equivalent focal lengths. I tend to experience disappointment when I'm processing my images on a high-resolution monitor, and see noise and/or lack of sharpness.

For a hardcore backpacker with an interest in photography the Sony RX100 vi makes the most sense.
I still find hard too let go on the potential image quality though and on WR, although a small camera like that can be easier to protect from harsh elements when you don't have to take a shot.

I keep going through multiple combos hoping to find the best hiking combo. I used more the Oly E-M5ii with the 12-100 lately and it's a good combo, but it takes more effort than my Fuji to get nice colors and to work with difficult scenes. I expect the Nikon to have the best files out there and the 24-70 looks good, I would like a slightly longer lens. The 15-30 is promising too.

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #61 on:** September 12, 2018, 06:03:33 pm »

Com’on, on my last trek with 800m elevation climb I packed a H6D-100c, 100mm f2.2, 300mm f4.5, pano head and RSS 2 series tripod... I wish I had the 28mm with me as well...

Ok, I have to confess that the part when I had to carry our friends 6 years old son for a few hundred meters was a bit much...

Cheers,
Bernard

davidgp · « **Reply #62 on:** September 12, 2018, 06:09:44 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier on September 12, 2018, 06:03:33 pm

Com’on, on my last trek with 800m elevation climb I packed a H6D-100c, 100mm f2.2, 300mm f4.5, pano head and RSS 2 series tripod... I wish I had the 28mm with me as well...

Ok, I have to confess that the part when I had to carry our friends 6 years old son for a few hundred meters was a bit much...

Cheers,
Bernard

I just came back yesterday of 4 days in the Pyrenees... several climbs carrying my Sony A7r II, 24-70 GM and 12-24, plus Gitzo 3541xls and arca Swiss z1... extra clothes, food, water... and I wished the whole time why the hell I didn’t choose something lighter like m43...

http://dgpfotografia.com

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #63 on:** September 12, 2018, 06:54:15 pm »

Quote from: davidgp on September 12, 2018, 06:09:44 pm

I just came back yesterday of 4 days in the Pyrenees... several climbs carrying my Sony A7r II, 24-70 GM and 12-24, plus Gitzo 3541xls and arca Swiss z1... extra clothes, food, water... and I wished the whole time why the hell I didn’t choose something lighter like m43...

I guess we both need to spend more time at the gym.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ray · « **Reply #64 on:** September 12, 2018, 09:07:27 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier on September 12, 2018, 06:03:33 pm

Com’on, on my last trek with 800m elevation climb I packed a H6D-100c, 100mm f2.2, 300mm f4.5, pano head and RSS 2 series tripod... I wish I had the 28mm with me as well...

Ok, I have to confess that the part when I had to carry our friends 6 years old son for a few hundred meters was a bit much...

Cheers,
Bernard

C'mon, Bernard. The issue is not just the physical strength required to carry a lot of gear in a backpack, but the readiness to capture the moment.

If you're only concerned with landscape shots, then you probably have the time to stop at any given location that offers a good perspective, take off your backpack, fit the appropriate lens to your camera, and attach the camera to a tripod, if necessary. Even if the subject is a changing sunset, you're unlikely to miss the moment, although that could happen if a cloud were to quickly obscure the sun whilst you were fiddling around with your gear.

One of the main interests I have when trekking in Nepal, for example, is not just the magnificent scenery and snow-capped mountains, but the unusual activities of the local people. At any given moment one might suddenly come across a Tibetan in traditional costume, galloping around the corner on a horse, or a Langur monkey swinging from a nearby tree, or a beautiful lady thrashing a mound of rice grains in her backyard.

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #65 on:** September 12, 2018, 09:18:08 pm »

Quote from: Ray on September 12, 2018, 09:07:27 pm

C'mon, Bernard. The issue is not just the physical strength required to carry a lot of gear in a backpack, but the readiness to capture the moment.

If you're only concerned with landscape shots, then you probably have the time to stop at any given location that offers a good perspective, take off your backpack, fit the appropriate lens to your camera, and attach the camera to a tripod, if necessary. Even if the subject is a changing sunset, you're unlikely to miss the moment, although that could happen if a cloud were to quickly obscure the sun whilst you were fiddling around with your gear.

One of the main interests I have when trekking in Nepal, for example, is not just the magnificent scenery and snow-capped mountains, but the unusual activities of the local people. At any given moment one might suddenly come across a Tibetan in traditional costume, galloping around the corner on a horse, or a Langur monkey swinging from a nearby tree, or a beautiful lady thrashing a mound of rice grains in her backyard.

I know Ray, fully agreed. I was just kidding.

I was in Nepal too and captured quite a few nice one on the way.

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL · « **Reply #66 on:** September 12, 2018, 09:38:21 pm »

None of the new models is on my wish-list, but the Fujifilm XT3 comes closest because I like moderately compact EVF cameras but want better all-round AF, so its promise of greatly improved main-sensor hybrid PDAF would make it distinctly better for me than previous X system models. The potential for improved combinations of AF performance and compactness in other new systems is good news for me too, like the new Z and R mirrorless systems, though only with a few lenses in each system serving well for a somewhat compact combo, with those over-sized sensors hampering the downsizing!

davidgp · « **Reply #67 on:** September 13, 2018, 01:24:41 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier on September 12, 2018, 06:54:15 pm

I guess we both need to spend more time at the gym.

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes, I do

http://dgpfotografia.com

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #68 on:** September 18, 2018, 12:00:20 am »

I guess that we don't have enough answers for this survey to be of statistical significance, but so far it looks pretty good for the Z system.

Cheers,
Bernard

Dan Wells · « **Reply #69 on:** September 18, 2018, 12:41:05 am »

The Z7 lab samples just showed up on Imaging Resource - they have samples next to the D850 and A7rIII, and I was able to use their comparometer to look at it next to the Fuji GFX 50S. It's darn near indistinguishable from the D850, as one might expect - the tiny differences seem to favor the Z7, but are as likely to be the test conditions as anything (slightly different lighting)?. The GFX performs better, but not enormously so...

jeremyrh · « **Reply #70 on:** September 18, 2018, 06:01:45 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier on September 18, 2018, 12:00:20 am

I guess that we don't have enough answers for this survey to be of statistical significance, but so far it looks pretty good for the Z system.

Cheers,
Bernard

I just placed my pre-order. I will replace my Oly u43 system - the difference in weight is not great and the upgrade in image quality (assuming comparable to D850) is enormous. If it works out well I'll sell my D850 and gradually upgrade my lenses where appropriate. If not, I'll keep the D850 for "best" and still have a superb "travel" system.

Apart from anything else it will be nice to standardise on one battery, flash system etc. !!

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #71 on:** September 18, 2018, 08:31:02 am »

Yes, same here!

Cheers,
Bernard

Ray · « **Reply #72 on:** September 18, 2018, 10:15:57 am »

Quote from: jeremyrh on September 18, 2018, 06:01:45 am

I just placed my pre-order. I will replace my Oly u43 system - the difference in weight is not great and the upgrade in image quality (assuming comparable to D850) is enormous. If it works out well I'll sell my D850 and gradually upgrade my lenses where appropriate. If not, I'll keep the D850 for "best" and still have a superb "travel" system.

Apart from anything else it will be nice to standardise on one battery, flash system etc. !!

I'm a bit hesitant to place an order yet. It seems the price of the Z7 in Australia, including a 24-70 F/4 S lens and FTZ adapter, is around A$6,500. The last time I spent that much on new camera equipment was in 2005 when I bought the Canon 5D with the new 24-105 F/4 zoom. The package was around A$5,500, roughly equivalent to $6,500 today, taking inflation into account.

However, the 13mp full-frame 5D was a very significant upgrade from my 6mp, cropped format, 60D, so I was able to justify spending that amount. The only thing that displeased me about the 5D was noise and banding in the deep shadows.

NancyP · « **Reply #73 on:** September 20, 2018, 01:31:59 pm »

I am looking at the developments with interest, but am still too invested in the current Canon lenses to get a new system. I might rent a mirrorless body with Canon adapter, to see if I like it. I don't print large.

Ray · « **Reply #74 on:** September 21, 2018, 08:46:15 am »

Quote from: NancyP on September 20, 2018, 01:31:59 pm

I am looking at the developments with interest, but am still too invested in the current Canon lenses to get a new system. I might rent a mirrorless body with Canon adapter, to see if I like it. I don't print large.

I also still have a number of Canon lenses which I no longer use. I switched to Nikon partly because I could use the Nikkor 14-24/F2.8, which wasn't full functional with an adapter on my 5D, and partly because the Nikon sensors have much better DR.

It has occurred to me that maybe the flange distance and diameter of the new Z7 would make it possible to design an adapter for the Z7 which would enable use of Canon lenses, with full functionality, and that 3rd parties might already be designing such an adapter.

I recently came across the following comment relevant to this.

"In the case of Nikon Z, the flange distance is a very short 16mm — the shortest among full frame mirrorless cameras. This means Nikon Z cameras can theoretically use lenses from almost any DSLR, and even other mirrorless lenses, including lenses from Canon EF, Micro Four Thirds (19.25mm), Sony E-mount (18mm), Fuji X-mount (17.7mm), and of course Nikon F-mount."

Jonathan Cross · « **Reply #75 on:** September 25, 2018, 01:36:40 pm »

Yes the weight of the cameras is a major factor, besides IQ. For instance,
Nikon Z6 + 24-70, 1175g, 2.5lb
Canon RF + 24-105, 1360g, 3lb
Sony A7III + 28-70, 895g, 2lb
Fuji X-T3 + 18-55, 849g, 1.86lb

As I have a Fuji X-T2 and a Canon5D3, my lightweight camera is the X-T2 which I now use most of the time with the 55-200 lens as well as the 18-55, and I am very happy with the results. This means that the only candidate is the X-T3 which I bought today, trading in my X-T1. I cannot justify the cost of changing systems, particularly as I have some Fuji primes which I find excellent.

That's just my view.

Best wishes,

Jonathan

adam tracksler · « **Reply #76 on:** September 25, 2018, 03:07:54 pm »

I was really psyched about the Panasonic, but after seeing it, I was kind of like, I could switch from my Sony, but I would be trading laterally with no bonuses - other than the option of using expensive Leica lenses.

I was also thinking about selling all my Sony and going to the GFX, but at the moment that seems like a plus for resolution, but a minus for video. I think I'll just buy a couple of lenses instead for the Sony. Besides with the Cambo Actus I have a very high MP camera for stills and architecture.

What could the GFX do for me in the end that the A7r3 can? not much.

It is also at a point where you really have a hard time buying a crappy camera nowadays...

Rayyan · « **Reply #77 on:** September 25, 2018, 04:02:42 pm »

NO. All offerings are interesting, but not really that much better than my current systems.

Age. My age in years dictate I carry a small system.
My eyes made me let my Ms be used by any family member.

I have pared my Nikons to the bone. Just the Df and the 50/1.8. ( btw it was the only cam/lens in SE for 3 months ).

I use the Fuji xp2 and added a xh-1. I am selling off most Fuji lenses I have.

I want less weight, a wide, mid prime. And a zoom for tele. The Fuji 55-200 is still heavy, for me.

The 35mm FF MILC does not change the physics of optics.
I guess my sweet spot is 24 MP.

A Fuji just about meets most of my requirements.

But PHOTOKINA happenings help me pass a few hours.

p.s. I am still not convinced with the FUJI foliage renderings.

Telecaster · « **Reply #78 on:** September 25, 2018, 04:03:23 pm »

Quote from: adam tracksler on September 25, 2018, 03:07:54 pm

It is also at a point where you really have a hard time buying a crappy camera nowadays...

Yup! The tools are pretty darn good. Time to work on the fools.

-Dave-

adam tracksler · « **Reply #79 on:** September 25, 2018, 04:33:53 pm »

Although a FF Foven is very interesting to me....

Poll

Which (if any) of the new mirrorless systems interest you?

Author Topic: Mirrorless comparison - Does anything announced recently help you? (Read 15441 times)