Mirrorless comparison - Does anything announced recently help you?

Nikon - 45.7 mp in a compact weathersealed package...

29 (34.1%)

Canon - wow - a 28-70 f2.0!

5 (5.9%)

Fuji - GH5-alike video with "best of APS-C" stills and great controls - or reasonably priced MF?

17 (20%)

I'm waiting for Panasonic - might it be a RED I can afford?

8 (9.4%)

Sony hasn't released anything in the past few weeks, but I like my mature system.

26 (30.6%)

Total Members Voted: 69

[BernardLanguillier]

I sell my prints...many very large in the 72" range and never once has any customer complained about the lack of image quality. People that chase that ultimate lens for that last drop of image quality, digging deep into the image corners for it...are measurebaters than photographers as in the end where the rubber hits the road...the print, no one gives an ounce of damn for that far corner pixel shining bright.

Sure, but then why bother discussing camera system/lens image quality if you think it isn't that important and that good enough works for you?

Wouldn't it come across as more reasonable to state "Nikon's S series compact f1.8 lenses may be better than their Sony equivalent, but it's not important for my applications"?

Cheers,
Bernard

[chez]

Sure, but then why bother discussing camera system/lens image quality if you think it isn't that important and that good enough works for you?

Wouldn't it come across as more reasonable to state "Nikon's S series compact f1.8 lenses may be better than their Sony equivalent, but it's not important for my applications"?

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, I'm always interested in what new tech brings to the table...but am realistic enough not to chase the rabbit down the hole. Three years ago I dumped my DSLR gear and moved to mirrorless as I saw a path to lighter gear with just as good and arguably better image quality. The savings in weight and bulk was enough of a carrot to make me leap. I'm always interested in improving my photo taking experiences and always looking at new gear. I'm not chasing the new shiny toy nor am I chasing the pixel peeping never ending image quality. It's all about a better photography experience for me.

Things like system weight, manual focus using EVF, Eye-AF which takes care of mundane focusing and let's me concentrate on that moment...etc.. are much more important to me than the pixels in the corner that no one notices when viewing the prints or books.

Looking back Bernard, I was suckered in by Nikon's marketing hype with their mysterious camera views of their "revolutionary" mirrorless camera...maybe there might be some substance to the hype...unfortunately I find nothing but hype.

[BernardLanguillier]

Looking back Bernard, I was suckered in by Nikon's marketing hype with their mysterious camera views of their "revolutionary" mirrorless camera...maybe there might be some substance to the hype...unfortunately I find nothing but hype.

Right... why not avoiding to comment moving forward on this un-interesting and over-hyped Nikon Z system?

I am not sure you have convinced that many people to date that your views were objective and fair, it seems to upset you quite a bit to see others find value,... there is really not much for you in this discussion from what I can tell.

Cheers,
Bernard

[chez]

Right... why not avoiding to comment moving forward on this un-interesting and over-hyped Nikon Z system?

I am not sure you have convinced that many people to date that your views were objective and fair, it seems to upset you quite a bit to see others find value,... there is really not much for you in this discussion from what I can tell.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ditto Bernard. The topic has to do with any interest in recent mirrorless releases. I guess my answer is no...nothing new hear. But that a valid post hear as the question was not what interests people about the new releases, but is there any interest.

Sorry you feel you need to restrict people from discussing that don't line up with your views.

[BernardLanguillier]

Sorry you feel you need to restrict people from discussing that don't line up with your views.

Just when I thought we had agreed on the whole thing...   

We agree that Sony makes great equipment at least. That’s a start.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Dan Wells]

When I'm hiking with a camera, it lives around my neck on a BlackRapid strap positioned over my backpack straps. If I have to get the camera out of my backpack, far too often I don't bother with the shot. The exception is in really active rain conditions, where I will try to get it some extra protection. On shorter (day or single overnight) hikes, I will carry a Gitzo Series 1 tripod in my backpack or in the outside compartment, but the tripod isn't really compatible with my longer hikes, although I've considered one of the new Gorillapod models to have something, and I certainly improvise quite a bit from the Rock E. Stone school of camera support. This type of photography puts a huge premium on toughness and sealing - not everybody needs it, but I really do. IBIS or a well-stabilized lens are also essential to me, since there are so many times when a tripod is too heavy or not to hand.

So far, the best option for this combination has been Fuji (assuming the weight of a D850 and a pro zoom or two is too much, and it is). Nikon has offered me an option with double the pixels and improved DR in the Z7. I'd rather have dual card slots, but I see Thom Hogan's point that a single XQD is probably not the most likely point of failure in the camera... I can't afford the weight to carry an extra body, but I will have one ready to be mailed out if needed (if I carry a Z7 on my next long hike, my backup will be Fuji, rather than a second Z7, because I can't afford two of them...).

[johnvanatta]

My Olympus cameras have gone with me on my Peak Designs shoulder clip through heavy, lashing rain plenty of times. Street photography during thunderstorms is grand. I'll probably wait to see some shower tests on youtube before subjecting my Z7 to the same level, but I'm optimistic. It's definitely a big one that Sony hasn't convinced me on.

[Ray]

When I'm hiking with a camera, it lives around my neck on a BlackRapid strap positioned over my backpack straps. If I have to get the camera out of my backpack, far too often I don't bother with the shot. The exception is in really active rain conditions, where I will try to get it some extra protection. On shorter (day or single overnight) hikes, I will carry a Gitzo Series 1 tripod in my backpack or in the outside compartment, but the tripod isn't really compatible with my longer hikes, although I've considered one of the new Gorillapod models to have something, and I certainly improvise quite a bit from the Rock E. Stone school of camera support. This type of photography puts a huge premium on toughness and sealing - not everybody needs it, but I really do. IBIS or a well-stabilized lens are also essential to me, since there are so many times when a tripod is too heavy or not to hand.

So far, the best option for this combination has been Fuji (assuming the weight of a D850 and a pro zoom or two is too much, and it is). Nikon has offered me an option with double the pixels and improved DR in the Z7. I'd rather have dual card slots, but I see Thom Hogan's point that a single XQD is probably not the most likely point of failure in the camera... I can't afford the weight to carry an extra body, but I will have one ready to be mailed out if needed (if I carry a Z7 on my next long hike, my backup will be Fuji, rather than a second Z7, because I can't afford two of them...).

This is similar to the problem that I've experienced when I do a lot of hiking or simply walking around the areas I visit, with camera over shoulder.

The problem could be resolved by sacrificing image quality and buying, for example, a Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 IV superzoom, which would meet most of my requirements in terms of weight and focal length range, with the possible exception of very wide angle requirements which could, however, be met most of the time by stitching images.

I've experienced the benefits of a Nikon DX5300 with 18-140 DX lens, which weighs a total of around 1.1Kg. The Sony RX10 IV also weighs about 1.1Kg, and so does the Nikon Z7 with 24-70/F4 zoom attached. All three systems are the same weight and differ mainly in image quality and zoom range. The longer the zoom range, the lower the quality.

That's the problem I'm tussling with. Should I give up my obsession with technical image quality for the sake of just getting the shot? A shot with the Sony RX10 4, at full focal length, would undoubtedly be better quality than a Z7 shot at 70mm, cropped to a 600mm equivalent. By the time I'd changed lenses on the Z7 to get a 600mm equivalent in DX mode, I would often have lost the shot.

However, the quality of Z7 shots between 24 and 70mm would obviously be much, much better than the other systems at the same equivalent focal lengths. I tend to experience disappointment when I'm processing my images on a high-resolution monitor, and see noise and/or lack of sharpness.

[BernardLanguillier]

I have found that a monopod can really help with stability in my cases for day time shooting on day hikes.

It makes the process of shooting single row handheld panos much more accurate also, especially if a nodalpoint slider is used.

I tend to keep my camera in my pack with the monopod attached to the pack, and then fit the camera to the monopod when I walk through a scenic location, for a few hundreds of meters typically. And then pack it back in.

It's just me, but I find that this helps me change from a walk mode to a photography mode with different speed and different levels of attention to the scenery.

For what it's worth.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Paulo Bizarro]

In early 2015 I decided to move from Canon DSLR system (at the time I had the Zeiss 21 Distagon, 50mm lens, and telezoom for hiking) to Sony Alpha 7. The main reason was to reduce weight, but not quality, thanks to some Sony lenses (ZA 35 f2.8, ZA 55 f1., complemented later on with Batis and Loxia.

I understand that Canikon needs to enter with a bang, hence the humongous f2 zoom and f1.2 and f0.95 lenses. I have no interest in them. Also, new Nikon f1.8 lenses are really too big compared to native options for the Alpha 7 system, so I have no interest in that.

If I want a normal f1.2 lens, I can get a Voigtlander FE 40 1.2, for example. For what I shoot, MF is plenty good.

[davidgp]

I'm also mystified by the lack of lossless Raw compression on the Sonys. That and the silly firmware upgrade process. With all my other cameras I can upgrade without needing to be hardwired to a computer. This is 1990s-era stuff.

-Dave-

As a Sony user... I completely agree


http://dgpfotografia.com

[davidgp]

I switched to Sony in 2016 from Canon and I have been slowly changing the lenses... I like my Sony camera and as Alan said, I will now need to win the lottery to consider changing... so Sony for the time being.

I mainly do landscape focusing with liveview... so, I don’t ask much of a camera... the major limitation in my photography is me...



http://dgpfotografia.com

[siddhaarta]

Does anything announced recently help me?

Not really. I would have considered the Nikon Z7 because of the nice highres sensor, but only if it would accept Zeiss lenses.

The Otus and Milvus lines should work, but, as these lenses are designed for DSLR with larger flange to sensor distances, they are not a good fit ... too big and too heavy.

On the other hand, Batis and Loxia would be very nice to use with the Nikon Z7, but it seems, Nikon won't cooperate with Zeiss for the respective protocols to guarantee a seamless function.

Won't hold my breath, but maybe an elegant solution comes up ...

[davidgp]

Does anything announced recently help me?

Not really. I would have considered the Nikon Z7 because of the nice highres sensor, but only if it would accept Zeiss lenses.

The Otus and Milvus lines should work, but, as these lenses are designed for DSLR with larger flange to sensor distances, they are not a good fit ... too big and too heavy.

On the other side, Batis and Loxia would be very nice to use with the Nikon Z7, but it seems, Nikon won't cooperate with Zeiss for the respective protocols to guarantee a seamless function.

Won't hold my breath, but maybe an elegant solution comes up ...

I would expect Loxia lenses would be adapted, after all, they can make it without electronics... they are completely mechanical.

Batis lenses I doubt it. Zeiss has never implemented something with AF if they couldn’t get access to the protocol from the manufacturer. Since these lenses, rumors say, are designed by Tamron in collaboration with Zeiss, maybe Tamron releases under their own brand (my theory), but probably without Zeiss famous coatings...



http://dgpfotografia.com

[John Camp]

<snip>
On the other hand, Batis and Loxia would be very nice to use with the Nikon Z7, but it seems, Nikon won't cooperate with Zeiss for the respective protocols to guarantee a seamless function.

Won't hold my breath, but maybe an elegant solution comes up ...

If what Nikon says about its new lens quality is true, what would be the advantage of going to Zeiss, even if they could be seamlessly adapted?

[siddhaarta]

If what Nikon says about its new lens quality is true, what would be the advantage of going to Zeiss, even if they could be seamlessly adapted?

That will be a very interesting question to answer in the following months and years.

But even if the answer would be favorable for Nikon (seems that chances are good), there remain still two problems:

1) Zeiss as of September 2018 has already 9 lenses ready for shipping (only counting Batis and Loxia).
2) I am quite fond of manual lenses and appreciate that Zeiss (Loxia) and Leica (M) do still manufacture this kind of treasures.

[gkroeger]

I have been using several Loxias on the AR7III.  Love the image quality and the feel of "good-ol" manual focus. What I don't love is the ergonomics of mounting and unmounting the Loxias. There is nowhere to grab the lens body, so you end up racking the focus helicoid from one end to the other just to mount and unmount the lens. Shooting a focus stack without auto-diaphragm is also slow. Focus, stop down, shoot, open up to a reasonable aperture, focus again, repeat. So while the Loxias are the main thing drawing me to Sony, I am interested to see how using the Nikon 35mm F/1.8 compares with auto-diaphragm and software driven focus "shifting." If the image quality is there, that could woo me. And while the Loxias are wonderfully small, they are not particularly lightweight.

Glenn

[Telecaster]

Since these lenses, rumors say, are designed by Tamron in collaboration with Zeiss, maybe Tamron releases under their own brand (my theory), but probably without Zeiss famous coatings...

My understanding is the Batises are Zeiss designs tweaked by Tamron to suit their manufacturing processes. I doubt (but don't claim to know either way) Tamron has the rights to make 'em under their own name.

-Dave-

[BernardLanguillier]

Not sure that will help. Reports indicate that F mount Tamron lenses on FTZ don’t focus well (or at all).

Cheers,
Bernard

[davidgp]

My understanding is the Batises are Zeiss designs tweaked by Tamron to suit their manufacturing processes. I doubt (but don't claim to know either way) Tamron has the rights to make 'em under their own name.

-Dave-

Yes, If that it is true, I don't see it either...