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Author Topic: Replacement for DP Merrills  (Read 1032 times)

NigelC

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Replacement for DP Merrills
« on: September 05, 2018, 06:31:31 AM »

Interesting reading all the activity on FF mirrorless but find I may be going the other way. Iím very happy with M43 (Omd5 mk2) for my compact take anywhere kit and have found high res mode can be very useful on travels.
For my not so often dedicated picture taking opportunities Iím getting a bit less tolerant of Merrill foibles especially lack of viewfinder and raw conversion software of course
Priority is maximum image quality cost equation everything else secondary video not at all..
Strangely enough.having not interested in DP Quattro route, the Canon 5dsr, at its now reduced price seems to tick most boxes except for DSLR focus errors. Sold my Zeiss ZE lenses years ago so would go for 16-35/4 and 70-200/4 IS mk2
Here in uk Sony A7r3 price has fallen but my choice would be canon lenses so need to add cost of adaptors. I believe with the slow pace involved here I could deal with DR limitations of Canon
Flawed thinking?
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Rob C

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 07:10:35 AM »

If it's what you want to do, who had a right to tell you you are mistaken, even when you ask?

It's you who has to be happy, not some self-proclaimed guru making an academic decision on someone else's behalf. It's just symptomatic of the critique culture that bedevils amateur photography.

Rob

NigelC

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 07:34:06 AM »

Or alternatively either same 5dsr body, Zeiss 21, canon 35is, canon 85/1.8
Or, since I am now agnostic re. C/N, Nikon 810 (850 way over budget) Zeiss 21 Nikon 35 vr and 85/1.8G - that could be best image bang for buck given not printing large enough for difference between 36 and 50 pixels to count; any snafus with 810 body I should know about?
Also Nikon 16-35 brings and 70-200 ve (allf4s) close enough to canon if went that way?
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NigelC

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2018, 08:00:26 AM »

OK let me ďunaskĒ the question about the 810 since I can read reviews but specifically ask how I might find the live view experience on the 810 compared to the lastDSLR I had, a Canon 5D2; LL wassaysabit critical of Nikon LV?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2018, 08:08:39 AM »

OK let me ďunaskĒ the question about the 810 since I can read reviews but specifically ask how I might find the live view experience on the 810 compared to the lastDSLR I had, a Canon 5D2; LL wassaysabit critical of Nikon LV?

Live view on the D810 is good.

It gets a bit rough at very low light levels, but still enables critical focusing.

Cheers,
Bernard

NigelC

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2018, 09:23:29 AM »

This question is really for Nikon users - if I went for the D810 - are the 20, 35 and 85 1.8Gs up to the camera optically; I used to have Distagon 21 in Canon mount and I wonder if itís Milvus re-incarnation is better than the cheaper Nikon equivalent. I had a good example of the EF 17-40 but the Zeiss was really noticeably better.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2018, 09:45:04 AM »

This question is really for Nikon users - if I went for the D810 - are the 20, 35 and 85 1.8Gs up to the camera optically; I used to have Distagon 21 in Canon mount and I wonder if itís Milvus re-incarnation is better than the cheaper Nikon equivalent. I had a good example of the EF 17-40 but the Zeiss was really noticeably better.

The 20mmm f1.8, 24mm f1.8 and 85mm f1.8 are outstanding. The 35mm f1.8 is very good, but IMHO not quite as good as the other 3 I have listed.

Cheers,
Bernard

NigelC

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2018, 10:43:12 AM »

Thanks for that information
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capital

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2018, 01:52:18 PM »

For their weight and cost, it is rather hard to compete with a DP Merrill.

Personally, I'd adopt a wait and see attitude for forthcoming high res offerings.

As full frame cameras add at least 1K per lens over their APSC counter parts, is there a reason not to consider the Nikon APC line, or even the Sony A6500 line.

Finally, OpticalLimits, formerly known as photozone has reviews of most lenses: http://www.opticallimits.com/


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NancyP

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2018, 05:00:55 PM »

I too find that the DP Merrill is a specialty camera. Most of the time I use my Canon 6D, and live with the DR deficiency via ND grads or multiple exposures. Canon 5DSr has happy users, and should be among the less expensive high resolution cameras available now refurbished or used. I haven't yet jumped on that band wagon, since for my small prints, 20 MP is fine.

The Zeiss Distagon 21 f/2.8 is a lovely lens. Digilloyd has a bunch of reviews of old and new Zeiss lenses on his pay site. I have heard from former Distagon users that they are happy with the results of the Canon 16-35 f/4 for landscape. 16-35 f/4 L IS and 70-200 f/4 L IS II or III make a pretty versatile landscape kit, if you like zooms.

My FF landscape/macro kit is the Zeiss Distagon 21 f/2.8, either the Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4 or the lowly but light and good Canon 40 f/2.8 STM, and the Voigtlander 125 mm f/2.5 1:1 macro. Plus tripod. Every once in a while I will dust off a Merrill if I want to travel light. For some reason, I like limiting my options some.
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NigelC

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 05:46:10 AM »

For their weight and cost, it is rather hard to compete with a DP Merrill.

Personally, I'd adopt a wait and see attitude for forthcoming high res offerings.

As full frame cameras add at least 1K per lens over their APSC counter parts, is there a reason not to consider the Nikon APC line, or even the Sony A6500 line.

Finally, OpticalLimits, formerly known as photozone has reviews of most lenses: http://www.opticallimits.com/
Iím happy with m43 kit so no interest in APC. I wouldnít consider any APC sufficiently different toM43 for my needs and certainly not a replacement for DPM, well at least not at ISO100. My benchmark is last DSLR I had , a 5D2 with Zeiss lenses and DPMs better in my book.
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capital

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2018, 01:57:28 PM »

For maximum image quality per cost, I am still of the opinion that APSC will deliver more value, however since you are very satisfied with the m43 option and its equivalence to APSC, it is hard for me to think that the 5dsr will provide sufficient value at more than $4k USD for the kit (body + 2 lenses) you have specified, versus the original selling price of $1K USD for the merrill. Unless your tripod is up to the task you also need to consider this upgrade, too.

As for merrill workflow issues, you might consider trying the convert to DNG option via Kalpanika

https://github.com/Kalpanika/x3f/tree/master/doc
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NancyP

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2018, 02:07:51 PM »

Thanks for the link to the DNG converter, Capital. I shall give it a trial. For low dynamic range scenes, Merrills are hard to beat for quality and compactness/low weight. My beef with their design is "no remote shutter release", just time delay.
Merrills cost $800.00 USD (direct from Sigma) about 2 months after release.
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capital

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2018, 02:37:49 PM »

Thanks for the link to the DNG converter, Capital. I shall give it a trial. For low dynamic range scenes, Merrills are hard to beat for quality and compactness/low weight. My beef with their design is "no remote shutter release", just time delay.
Merrills cost $800.00 USD (direct from Sigma) about 2 months after release.

You're welcome re: DNG. I was trying to be overly conservative with the value proposition, as a dp merrill is now worth around $400USD
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NancyP

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2018, 05:25:21 PM »

The used ones are bargains. B and W conversions from Foveon sensor images look quite good, BTW
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adri

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2018, 08:05:04 AM »

Interesting reading all the activity on FF mirrorless but find I may be going the other way. Iím very happy with M43 (Omd5 mk2) for my compact take anywhere kit and have found high res mode can be very useful on travels.
For my not so often dedicated picture taking opportunities Iím getting a bit less tolerant of Merrill foibles especially lack of viewfinder and raw conversion software of course
Priority is maximum image quality cost equation everything else secondary video not at all..
Strangely enough.having not interested in DP Quattro route, the Canon 5dsr, at its now reduced price seems to tick most boxes except for DSLR focus errors. Sold my Zeiss ZE lenses years ago so would go for 16-35/4 and 70-200/4 IS mk2
Here in uk Sony A7r3 price has fallen but my choice would be canon lenses so need to add cost of adaptors. I believe with the slow pace involved here I could deal with DR limitations of Canon
Flawed thinking?

Why no interest in going the Quattro route; those cameras can shoot in DNG mode.

True, DP Merrills are slower to process, but I still like their IQ very much.....when the light is right. The latest SPP is suppsoed to run faster, but I'm not entirely sure.


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NancyP

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2018, 12:23:23 PM »

Speaking of Foveon sensors, is anyone else anxious to see the L mount full frame Sigma Foveon MILC (the "Octo"??? Current APSC and APS-H format cameras are "Quattros")? Sigma promises an adapter to EF mount and presumably to Nikon F mount, so your existing Sigma Art lenses will be usable. I have believed for a while that if Sigma could get the manufacturing cost down, they would eventually bring out a FF Foveon. I believe that their development and quality control inspection processes have used full frame Foveon sensors for many years.
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Kirk_C

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2018, 10:10:12 PM »

Speaking of Foveon sensors, is anyone else anxious to see the L mount full frame Sigma Foveon ....

Absolutely. I still love my DPs and shoot with them regularly. The option to have a FF with so many lens options could be amazing.

I hope they're been doing continuous development on both the sensor and their app so that we get a major leap forward in color and it's easy to process files.
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capital

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2018, 12:57:49 AM »

NancyP, I am interested in what they come out with, though I am wary, since the flaky rollout of Quattro sensor demonstrated that a lot of rendering is highly dependent on the raw processing routine. I am concerned they might not nail the rendering for the forthcoming 'new' full frame variant. My preference is a lower MP count X3 layout, i.e. 15-24 MP per layer. If they go with a Quattro 50MP sensor (~80MP in Bayer terms), I think the luminance noise, even at base ISO will make this a non-contender, especially if they say this can be 'fixed' in a super fine detail (aka bracketing) mode.
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NancyP

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Re: Replacement for DP Merrills
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2018, 11:11:13 AM »

My hope is that they will have taken the Sigma user community's criticisms of SPP seriously. I never went for Quattros. The Merrills have been my high quality lightweight camera for hiking, when I feel like working with only one focal length (and have a pocket full of charged batteries).
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