Mirrorless. Nikon Z7. Useful for the studio / flash photographer?

[elliot_n]

I've never used a mirrorless camera (apart from my iPhone) but I'm intrigued by the new Nikon Z7. I currently shoot with a D800, and nearly all of my work (mainly people-based) is lit with multiple off-camera flashes, in the studio and on location.

Is the mirrorless concept useful for this type of shooting? Some of the touted benefits - e.g. a WYSIWYG viewfinder, and IBIS - are presumably irrelevant in my scenario. So what can mirrorless give me that I'm not getting with an optical viewfinder?

The main thing I've garnered from reading a lot of the marketing material, is that mirrorless might provide a more efficient way for nailing focus on people's faces, especially if they're towards the edge of the frame. That in itself might be worth the price of admission (I find the D800 very cumbersome in this regard).

Or is an optical viewfinder the way to go for a flash photographer?

[Rado]

My experience with Sony mirrorless in the studio with strobes is less than positive. When shooting at f8-11 the electronic viewfinder looks crappy (it has to use high iso be able to show anything) and the AF struggles. So I tend to use my DSLR in the studio and mirrorless outside in ambient light where IBIS and being able to focus at f1.4 makes it a better tool than DSLR.

Maybe the new Nikons will perform better but I wouldn't expect miracles.

[elliot_n]

Thanks Rado. That's what I needed to know. I'm frequently shooting with flash in low light at f11, so it sounds like a non-starter for me.

(Though recently I've started following the regrettable trend for ultra-shallow-depth-of-field ambient light portraits, so maybe I'll consider mirrorless for that.)

[BernardLanguillier]

The Z7 will use the set aperture btwn full open and f5.6 and will stay at f5.6 even if you close down more (f8 or f11). So it should be better than the Sony in these cases.

It only features officialy Face AF, but it is very easy to zoom to 100% in the EVF to check eye focus and override manually if needed.

Cheers,
Bernard

[elliot_n]

Ah, so that's what Eye AF is! Given that the Face AF has already detected the eyes in its face recognition algorithm, why wouldn't it focus on them?

Interesting re. f5.6. I'll have to wait for some reviews comparing the Nikon with the Sony in the studio.

[Two23]

Note that the top sync on Z7 is slightly slower, at 1/200s vs 1/250s.  I shoot a fair number of multi-flash images myself (up to 16 flash at once,) and see absolutely no compelling reason to spend >$3,000 on a new camera.  My plan is to stay with my D800E until prices of used D850 fall to ~$2,000.


Kent in SD

Below shot used x6 Nikon SB-25 @ 1/1

[BernardLanguillier]

Ah, so that's what Eye AF is! Given that the Face AF has already detected the eyes in its face recognition algorithm, why wouldn't it focus on them?

Interesting re. f5.6. I'll have to wait for some reviews comparing the Nikon with the Sony in the studio.

When I use Face AF on my D5, it does focus on the eyes more often than not. Either it is completely off for some reason, typically the lens focusing speed relative to subject movement or user error, or it gets the face right and then the eyes are often in focus.

I have not tested the Z7, but I don't see why it should be worse with more AF points and much more information to work from.

Cheers,
Bernard

[elliot_n]

My plan is to stay with my D800E until prices of used D850 fall to ~$2,000.

Sounds like a good plan. I might join you

Nice picture - it's the kind of set-up I'm thinking about (re. the relevance of mirrorless to flash photography).

[32BT]

The Z7 will use the set aperture btwn full open and f5.6 and will stay at f5.6 even if you close down more (f8 or f11). So it should be better than the Sony in these cases.

It only features officialy Face AF, but it is very easy to zoom to 100% in the EVF to check eye focus and override manually if needed.

Cheers,
Bernard

LOL, you been testing one? ;-)

Fuji has an option where MF override immediately zooms in to the center of focuspoints, but the downside was: that "immediate" isn't immediate tactile-wise, and the center of focus may not be what you want to see; e.g. for a face filling the frame you might end up with just the nose in the vf, not the eye of interest.

[Martin Kristiansen]

The Sony only stops down to near the used aperture if you are using live effect on which allows you to set exposure visually. If you have live effect off the lens works as per a normal DSLR and stops down for the exposure. All my commercial work is in the studio and if the light is comfortable or even a little dim for viewing the camera focusses just fine. Using live view effect on severely inhibits the focussing ability of the camera.

Mirrorless in my opinion is easier to use in low light because the EVF boosts the signal and even if it gets a little noisy it is still easier to see and use in very dark spaces.

Mirrorless is no big deal. It’s a camera. Works and feels much the same. There are of course some differences. First off it’s of course smaller. Lots of men like to talk about what big hands they have so they wont manage. Usually these same men manage to dominate the tiny little buttons on the tv remote just fine and also do pretty well with their phones. Mirrorless are about the same size as old SLRs and we all managed them so I really  don’t see the problem

Set the auto review off. Otherwise you take a photo and think you are still looking at a live view but suddenly time seems to have frozen. You can chimp using the EVF rather than the rear LCD. If you are into chimping. Useful to do a quick check without having to take the camera from your eye and gawping at the lcd like a total noob. You can set a lot of info in the viewfinder or have if totally clean and cycle through the options. I like a clean clear viewfinder myself. I have set a button to bring up or remove the level, that’s about it. Live histogram in the EVF is a useful one in tricky lighting situations. If you are using a picture style like black and white you can set the EVF to display like that. As black and white I mean. I never use it. If the camera is off holding it up to take a peek at the view is of course a non starter. I hated that in the beginning. Zebras and focus peaking is useful. I know you can get all that on the lcd of a DSLR but I never got into that. It’s very useful with the EVF. Have a short cut to turn that stuff on and off. It gets busy I feel. The auto zoom in for manual focus assist is lovely. I use that constantly with product photography.

A big of an essay but I’m trying to say it’s different in little ways but actually much the same.

[32BT]

If the camera is off holding it up to take a peek at the view is of course a non starter. I hated that in the beginning.

zomg +1

Because the camera is relatively light and easy to hold with one hand, this is so true, though the fuji had a vf only option and using the lcd/vf sensor to wake from sleep.

[elliot_n]

The Sony only stops down to near the used aperture if you are using live effect on which allows you to set exposure visually. If you have live effect off the lens works as per a normal DSLR and stops down for the exposure. All my commercial work is in the studio and if the light is comfortable or even a little dim for viewing the camera focusses just fine. Using live view effect on severely inhibits the focussing ability of the camera.

Mirrorless in my opinion is easier to use in low light because the EVF boosts the signal and even if it gets a little noisy it is still easier to see and use in very dark spaces.

Mirrorless is no big deal. It’s a camera. Works and feels much the same. There are of course some differences. First off it’s of course smaller. Lots of men like to talk about what big hands they have so they wont manage. Usually these same men manage to dominate the tiny little buttons on the tv remote just fine and also do pretty well with their phones. Mirrorless are about the same size as old SLRs and we all managed them so I really  don’t see the problem

Set the auto review off. Otherwise you take a photo and think you are still looking at a live view but suddenly time seems to have frozen. You can chimp using the EVF rather than the rear LCD. If you are into chimping. Useful to do a quick check without having to take the camera from your eye and gawping at the lcd like a total noob. You can set a lot of info in the viewfinder or have if totally clean and cycle through the options. I like a clean clear viewfinder myself. I have set a button to bring up or remove the level, that’s about it. Live histogram in the EVF is a useful one in tricky lighting situations. If you are using a picture style like black and white you can set the EVF to display like that. As black and white I mean. I never use it. If the camera is off holding it up to take a peek at the view is of course a non starter. I hated that in the beginning. Zebras and focus peaking is useful. I know you can get all that on the lcd of a DSLR but I never got into that. It’s very useful with the EVF. Have a short cut to turn that stuff on and off. It gets busy I feel. The auto zoom in for manual focus assist is lovely. I use that constantly with product photography.

A big of an essay but I’m trying to say it’s different in little ways but actually much the same.

Thanks for your comments. It sounds like Rado's complaint earlier in the thread, was the result of him having the camera set up incorrectly (?)

[Rado]

I had live effect off, otherwise I wouldn't be able to see anything. To be fair, I've only tested Sigma lenses with the MC11 adapter on the Sony. They start focusing wide open and close down to working aperture to finish focusing (which is both visually ugly and annoying). But it's my understanding that native Sony lenses behave the same way, to deal with focus shift? I have no idea what the new Nikons will do.

[Martin Kristiansen]

Apart from a set of three vintage rokkor lenses all my lenses are native Sony lenses for the FF. I have a set of apsc sigma primes for the A6500. I haven’t noticed any problems such as you describe and have not had issues achieving focus in the studio. Could be an adapter issue?

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

Can’t speak to the Nikon or Sonys...but i shoot with st robes in studio and on location daily.  I switched to Olympus years ago.  Even now my phase system is only used for select shoots.  The Olympus has a setting to simulate an optical finder.  Basically the white balance stops shifting and the view is normalized continuously in terms of exposure.  That way regardless of my settings, it looks like an optical view wide open.  That way I can set myself to f/8 at 200 iso indoors and still see what I am doing. 

The biggest benefit has been focus accuracy.  The eye autofocus is amazing, but the magnify and focus peaking functions have been extremely helpful.  And being able to see those in the viewfinder if I want is even better!  That way I can keep the camera at my eye.