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Author Topic: Planning on graduating to Gator Board  (Read 1249 times)

robertDthomas

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Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« on: August 14, 2018, 11:57:57 am »

I have been doing a fair bit of printing on canvas and stretching over bars.  Have read here many good posts on mounting to Gator and use of Miracle Muck.  One recent post indicated that Raphael’s may be closing shop.  So my question is should I switch to another PVA adhesive like Lineco’s or is it better to start the canvas mounting to Gator using their adhesive backed version of the board?  YouTube has many good videos of the process either using a glue or self-adhesive. So for a starter on this approach which might you folks recommend?  And any tips would be appreciated.
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mearussi

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 02:20:43 pm »

Glue is repositionable, self-adhesive is not--there's no room for error.

 
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Paul2660

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 02:22:56 pm »

I have been told their website is still taking orders for muck, planning on ordering next week. 

If you can't get it Glamour II from Breathing Color works very well, albeit more expensive and a bit longer drying time.

As for adhesive backed gator, maybe for small prints, but for larger ones, (all I work with it for) I would personally stay away from the adhesive, as once down, it's down, no room for mistakes.  It's easier to just muck the board, and roll out the print, then press it down with roller, at least for me. 

Never ever had a muck bound print pull off.

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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DougDolde

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 02:45:03 pm »

Graduating?  I don't see it that way

I went the opposite direction, from mounting canvas on boards to doing canvas wraps.

I much prefer the process of stretching on bars, not to mention the finished look.
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dgberg

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2018, 08:09:59 am »

We used to do 75% gallery wraps and now do 75% Gatorboard instead.
Our sizes have gotten larger and the gallery wraps on those bigger (24x36 and larger)
do not like the seasonal humidity changes, especially in the winter when the canvas gets sloppy loose.
Thought about changing to bars with keys to be able to re-tension but our sizes are all so custom.
We cut everything with our dual mitersaw and use our underpinner to staple.
Hospitals we supply want no issues like that. They also love the canvas on gatorboard in a frame. Easy to lock on the wall as well.

Paul2660

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2018, 08:18:22 am »

Both solutions have their place.

Canvas wraps, have issues also:

Mirrored edge? or wrapped edge.  I personally do not like the look of a mirrored edge.  So how to account for the portion of the image that will be wrapped. 
Framing, most wraps are 1.5" thick, so this rules out most frames with a standard rabbet.  Leaving only a floater frame and these are always more expensive.
Larger wraps say 30 x 45 and on up to 36 x 72 (largest I will wrap) require more time IMO than a similar canvas on gator.  And the frame will need more prep time, with multiple bracer bars, both vertical and corner.
Tryptic style work, again is just more work, as you now have 6 edges that need some form of false image, either mirroring or other.  If not too much of the image is in the wrap and your eye won't follow the image across the 3 panels. 
If you are using an Epson, mirror edges are next to impossible on a larger print, due to the fact that Epson can't print canvas (at least none of the Epson's I have used 9880, 9900, and now 9000) without a enough skew error that your mirror edge will not line up, skew of 1/16 is OK, past this to 1/8 and you will see some of the mirrored edge in the face.

For larger prints, I will always will consider working with gator, as I can use any frame made with a 1/2 rabbet.  For a multiple panel shot, again gator/canvas lends itself to this again as you can pick a very narrow metal frame or wood frame and keep image continuity much better.

Coated gator prints, are more durable, period.  So for an institution, like hospital or office building where there is a lot of traffic, a framed gator print will possibly be a better solution. 

Gator prints also take the cost down as I no longer have to job out the chop/join of the frames, not as much an expense but time consuming. 

Paul C

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Paul Caldwell
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mearussi

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 12:06:33 pm »

I don't use mirrored, I think it looks weird. I use 1.5" width bars with 1" thickness in back and so create a new canvas size in PS with 2.5" all around, move and center my image to it, select the white 2.5" border and then use Content Aware Fill to fill in the border. Looks far more natural than mirrored and alignment is not as critical.
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DougDolde

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2018, 12:57:42 pm »

The beauty of a canvas wrap is there is no need to frame it.  As far as the sides, the bigger the print, the more feasible it is to just wrap the image...no mirroring. I'll never use Gator again
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Paul2660

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2018, 01:06:30 pm »

It's good  that your customers like the look of a wrap on the wall.  I agree that when that option is available it's a great alternative, however many customers prefer a floater frame at least around here.  Many consider it the traditional way to put a canvas on the wall. 

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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mearussi

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2018, 02:55:38 pm »

It's good  that your customers like the look of a wrap on the wall.  I agree that when that option is available it's a great alternative, however many customers prefer a floater frame at least around here.  Many consider it the traditional way to put a canvas on the wall. 

Paul C
I offer both, but I use clear acrylic instead of Gatorboard because I don't like the look of the foam edges. The thin 1/8" acrylic edges, even unpolished, are unobtrusive.  Also acrylic edges don't readily dent like Gatorboard does. But it does weigh more.
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Steve76

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2019, 04:39:30 pm »

I offer both, but I use clear acrylic instead of Gatorboard because I don't like the look of the foam edges. The thin 1/8" acrylic edges, even unpolished, are unobtrusive.  Also acrylic edges don't readily dent like Gatorboard does. But it does weigh more.

How do you adhere the print to the acrylic? Do you use Miracle Muck?
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tr4driver

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 09:22:05 am »

I have been doing a fair bit of printing on canvas and stretching over bars.  Have read here many good posts on mounting to Gator and use of Miracle Muck.  One recent post indicated that Raphael’s may be closing shop.  So my question is should I switch to another PVA adhesive like Lineco’s or is it better to start the canvas mounting to Gator using their adhesive backed version of the board?  YouTube has many good videos of the process either using a glue or self-adhesive. So for a starter on this approach which might you folks recommend?  And any tips would be appreciated.

I've mounted several different types of paper to self-adhesive gator board.  Fine art papers and regular photo papers work fine; however, I do not recommend using self-adhesive gator board with canvas.  My experience has been that the weave/texture of the canvas does not allow sufficient contact to the self-adhesive material, and the edges will eventually lift.

Kurt
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dgberg

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 11:57:07 am »

I've mounted several different types of paper to self-adhesive gator board.  Fine art papers and regular photo papers work fine; however, I do not recommend using self-adhesive gator board with canvas.  My experience has been that the weave/texture of the canvas does not allow sufficient contact to the self-adhesive material, and the edges will eventually lift.

Kurt

I have a horror story about attaching canvas on gatorboard with mounting adhesive.
One of the first large projects I did was about 75-24x36 canvas on gatorboard in a metal frame.
I have been using Miracle Muck for years but it takes too long to dry when you are doing that many.
For this project I thought it would go quicker if I webbed up our larger laminator with Seals Print Mount Ultra and adhesived it to the gator.
The canvas went on smooth as silk and even with several pretty good test tugs at the corners it stayed put.
The hospital crew hung them sometime in Sept. and they looked great.
Moving ahead to December I get a call from the designer in charge of the hospital project telling me about 15 or so had ripples in the canvas and they looked like the canvas was sagging.
I hustled over and sure as shootin it looks like the adhesive was letting go from the canvas attach side.
Took the bad ones down for a return trip to the shop for the redo. Before I left I looked very closely at the hallways where the bad ones were hung and guess what they were all under or very near to a large industrial heat duct. You may have figured this out already. With the help of the hospitals maintenance man he did a temperature check of the hot air coming from that duct and it was 110 degrees. The hallway temp at waist high was 75 and at 7 feet from the floor it was like 82. Went home and dug into the specs for that adhesive to find out that at 104 it will not stick. Too darn hot, who woulda thunk? Pulled the canvas off flipped them over and Miracle Mucked the canvas on the other side. Frames back together and rehung. Not one of those other 50 or so canvas have ever showed any signs of sagging. Have done a ton since then and all with Miracle Muck as I just could not chance that happening again. I didn't sleep good for about a month worrying the same thing would happen to the rest of them.

John_Harris

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Re: Planning on graduating to Gator Board
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2019, 06:18:44 pm »

Canvas on gator certainly can look nice!  The flatness it provides is a nice look.  We also only mount small canvas on any kind of backer using mounting adhesives.  I did not see what thickness of Gator you were planning, or if the final product is to be framed.

Gator is fragile and dents easily, especially along the edges.  In my mind, it makes little sense to provide a print with a long display life if the presentation it's permanently mounted to won't hold up to the years.  All it takes is one reckless kid or dog, a careless impact with a mop handle or elbow and the piece is ruined.

If you are framing the piece, I would suggest 1/4" HDF, or DiBond.  If you need thickness, the HDF, with a flush MDF box frame - hung by french cleat.

Stretched canvas has the benefits of a little flex and can take some of the abuse.  Sagging is easily remedied by spraying a soft mist distilled water on the exposed canvas back; the canvas will tighten right back up as it dries.

John H
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