Milvus 25mm vs. Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II

[Alskoj]

Getting ready to buy one of these lenses for my Canon 5DSR.  I have a couple of view cameras so the Canon's movements intrigue me, but would also love to work with the Zeiss glass.  I mainly shoot landscapes/rivers.  Any input is appreciated.

[Two23]

Don't shoot Canon, but have the Nikon 24mm PC-E.  I also shoot 4x5 & 5x7.  I honestly can't imagine not having a lens for my Nikon that can't do movements.  It's my most used lens.  A shift lens is so much more versatile for landscapes than any regular lens could hope to be.  If the Nikon 24mm PC-E didn't exist I'd rather have the Sigma 24mm than the Milvus.


Kent in SD

[guido]

I have no experience with the Zeiss. But I really like the TS-E 24mm 3.5L. It is remarkably sharp and works wonderfully with the 5DSR. The movements help keep trees and buildings pointed where you want them and the focal plane aligned with your subject. It really forces you to slowdown and control the elements of the image. Focus on the live view is critical and really makes the view camera feeling complete. I wish Canon offered a setting to make the Live View upside down and reversed...

Get the TS-E. You will not be disappointed...

my 2c...

[NancyP]

Hey, Canon has firmware that is "hackable" - if you can get one of the Magic Lantern software wizards interested, you might be able to get them to add an upside down - reversed view 

[NancyP]

ps. check out Keith Cooper "Northside" 's site and his recent post in this LuLa subforum "All the TS-E lenses" for information about the lens and about "how to use" the tilt shift (rotate) capacity.

[nazdravanul]

For sheer IQ the Milvus most probably trounces the ts-e 24mm, at all apertures -no direct experience with the new 25. I did a relatively unfair comparison between the 24 TS-E mk2 and the 28mm Otus (the Milvus shares a lot of that DNA, especially stopped down). No contest - the Otus massacred the ts-e. The Canon images looked dull, artificial and lifeless, compared to the Zeiss ones. This has been my experience, over and over, with multiple Canon and Nikon top lenses, versus Zeiss counterparts. I needed (and still need) the movements, in a wideangle (I have the Hartblei Zeiss tilt-shit lenses from 40mm upwards) but I simply can't give up that much IQ, so I'm forcing myself into all sorts of other technical solutions (nodal stitching, focus-stacking etc.) waiting / praying for a high quality wideangle ts lens from Zeiss or Sony.  No easy choice, here.

[Alskoj]

Thanks all for your input.  I'm going to go with a wide angle Milvus and it's 135mm f2 brother.  I have a friend who has the Canon 24mm ts-e who will let me use it occasionally until I can decide whether or not to buy one.

[NancyP]

People buy tilt-shift lenses for their tilt-shift capacity. Why carry around a not-particularly-fast-but-still-heavy chunk of metal and glass with awkward knobs unless you have a need for TS (or want to learn how to exploit capabilities of TS)? My (older) Zeiss Distagon 21 mm is a splendid lens, lovely rendition, very good for conventional landscape. Just don't try to get buildings straight or one-shot landscapes sharp at near distances to infinity in situations where one might focus stack - if not for the moving foreground elements. I just unboxed my ebay TS-E 24 II, itching to play with it - the cool architectural sites in my neighborhood, landscapes I might otherwise skip, wide-angle near-macro +/- 12mm extension tube, visit the local bluffs, visit the local mine-now-park once the leaves drop. The Zeiss 21 isn't going away. It is my most-used astro-landscape lens. It is a splendid "most landscapes" lens.

Admittedly I am not shooting a high MP camera - still stuck at 20 MP (6D). I shoot for my own pleasure, and don't have ginormous wall space with good viewing distances, so 20 MP looks fine for an A3 print.


An apology to Keith Cooper: "NorthLIGHT", not "Northside".

[Shiftworker]

No contest - the Otus massacred the ts-e.

One person's 'massacre' in terms of visual difference is another's 'nothing that can't be fixed in post'........

[nazdravanul]

One person's 'massacre' in terms of visual difference is another's 'nothing that can't be fixed in post'........

You can’t fix microcontrast in post - believe me,  I’ve tried. I really need a TS wideangle and I really wanted to make the 24 TS work. I tried 2 different raw converters, played with clarity, sharpening, levels sliders, color corrections - when one lens /sensor combination records 3 shades of grey or yellow, and the other one records 50 shades of it, over the exact same area, there is no “fixing in post”. Of course, viewing distance and display medium / size also play a critical role in perceived quality. I print big (think 1.20m by 0.8m minimum), and the viewing distance is gallery viewing distance. There is no contest, within these parameters, no matter how much “post fixing” you do, between the 24 ts and a good Zeiss wideangle - the Zeiss offering is significantly (vastly) superior in term of IQ.

[Shiftworker]

You can’t fix microcontrast in post - believe me,  I’ve tried. I really need a TS wideangle and I really wanted to make the 24 TS work. I tried 2 different raw converters, played with clarity, sharpening, levels sliders, color corrections - when one lens /sensor combination records 3 shades of grey or yellow, and the other one records 50 shades of it, over the exact same area, there is no “fixing in post”. Of course, viewing distance and display medium / size also play a critical role in perceived quality. I print big (think 1.20m by 0.8m minimum), and the viewing distance is gallery viewing distance. There is no contest, within these parameters, no matter how much “post fixing” you do, between the 24 ts and a good Zeiss wideangle - the Zeiss offering is significantly (vastly) superior in term of IQ.

It really is difficult to take your claims seriously when you are using such hyperbolic language like 'massacre' and '(vastly) superior'. If true these claimed differences would revolutionise most photographers working practices and gear choices. If the Zeiss is this much much better than what is generally regarded as a first rate lens then it's quite literately 'unimaginable' how much better it is than say a run of the mill 24mm lens like the EF24-70 2.8II    Can you post some side by side examples to show what by your description would surely be obvious differences even on the web?

[nazdravanul]

It really is difficult to take your claims seriously when you are using such hyperbolic language like 'massacre' and '(vastly) superior'. If true these claimed differences would revolutionise most photographers working practices and gear choices. If the Zeiss is this much much better than what is generally regarded as a first rate lens then it's quite literately 'unimaginable' how much better it is than say a run of the mill 24mm lens like the EF24-70 2.8II    Can you post some side by side examples to show what by your description would surely be obvious differences even on the web?

Not trying to prove anything here, that hasn't been proved by many other reputable online sources (see lenscore.org or get yourself a paid account at diglloyd). And sorry, I don't post online test shots - my artistic work is geared into a completely different direction. Take it or leave it, please make your own choices and tests, as you see fit.

[D White]

Well the 24TS II is one dam fine lens, period. There is currently nothing better with movements.

There may be optics that perform "slightly" better wide open, but they don't tilt and they don't shift. Pick your weapon, do you need movements or do you need a fast prime? Most uses of a TS lens are stopped down to some degree, unless one is looking for a microtome plane of focus for effect.

If you do not focus stack, you will never fully realize any perceived benefits of a particular 24mm over the 24TS when it comes to near/far image resolution. With exposure blending common in landscape work, I do not also need the extra difficulties of focus stacking.

By contrast, I do not pick up a 24TS for astro photography or reportage/street photography. A TS lens is a specialty lens for the particular use it excels at. Some Zeiss magic dust will not easily outperform what a TS is best at, if it did I would own it.