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Author Topic: Upressing in Lightroom  (Read 1495 times)

alex

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Upressing in Lightroom
« on: July 19, 2018, 08:15:24 am »

I'm new to printing directly from Lightroom (v6.14). When making large prints from Photoshop I could upres the file, in stages if need be, and then do output sharpening when ready (Photokit Sharpener). If I'm doing this from Lightroom, presumably I select a paper size in Page Setup and then select Maximize Size? Does LR upres in the same way as Photoshop? And presumably the final print sharpening (e.g. Standard) is based on the print size? Also, if I'm outsourcing large prints instead of doing them myself, presumably I use the image size/sharpening options in 'Export', which work in a similar way to resizing in Photoshop?

Thanks,
Alex
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digitaldog

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 02:19:24 pm »

Do run a test but when I did so, I found LR's upsizing to be the best for output to a print and fastest/flexible.
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Andrew Rodney
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chez

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 06:49:44 pm »

So in LR do you just do some initial capture sharpening and let LR do all the rest of the sharpening when printing?
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digitaldog

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 06:53:47 pm »

So in LR do you just do some initial capture sharpening and let LR do all the rest of the sharpening when printing?
Exactly.
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alex

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2018, 05:37:05 am »

Thanks - so the old advice to upsize in incremental stages no longer holds true?

Alex
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Rand47

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2018, 12:24:32 pm »

Thanks - so the old advice to upsize in incremental stages no longer holds true?

Alex

I think that may depend on your “native resolution” at any given image size.  My rule of thumb is that if my image at its printed size “on the paper” is 180 ppi or higher, I just let LR do the upsampling to 360 (Epson) on the fly.  If it is much lower than that, I’ll first run a test using LR’s upsampling.  If I don’t think there’s enough there for LR to successfully upsample, I’ll then go to Photoshop and upsample, then return and print from LR.

I can say that I’ve had decent success w/ LR “only” doing upsampling with images as low as 125 ppi (upsampled by LR to 360, on the fly).  Whatever is going on “under the hood” in LR is pretty darn good.

You might find Jeff Schewe’s book, “The Digital Print” to be very helpful. It’s a tour de force on digital printing and has tons of Lightroom specific printing information / advice.

Rand

« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:28:36 pm by Rand47 »
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KeithR

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 02:35:47 pm »

You might find Jeff Schewe’s book, “The Digital Print” to be very helpful. It’s a tour de force on digital printing and has tons of Lightroom specific printing information / advice.

I will 2nd this and also recommend "Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom (2nd Edition)"
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chez

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2018, 07:43:10 pm »

I think that may depend on your “native resolution” at any given image size.  My rule of thumb is that if my image at its printed size “on the paper” is 180 ppi or higher, I just let LR do the upsampling to 360 (Epson) on the fly.  If it is much lower than that, I’ll first run a test using LR’s upsampling.  If I don’t think there’s enough there for LR to successfully upsample, I’ll then go to Photoshop and upsample, then return and print from LR.

I can say that I’ve had decent success w/ LR “only” doing upsampling with images as low as 125 ppi (upsampled by LR to 360, on the fly).  Whatever is going on “under the hood” in LR is pretty darn good.

You might find Jeff Schewe’s book, “The Digital Print” to be very helpful. It’s a tour de force on digital printing and has tons of Lightroom specific printing information / advice.

Rand

But isn't upsampling and output sharpening two different things, albeit somewhat related?
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Tony Jay

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 07:47:18 pm »

But isn't upsampling and output sharpening two different things, albeit somewhat related?
Yes!
However, optimal sharpening is absolutely linked to the degree of up- or down-resolution done. And therefore sharpening can be automated because what needs to be done is consequent to the change in resolution.
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Denis de Gannes

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 09:15:30 pm »

Yes!
However, optimal sharpening is absolutely linked to the degree of up- or down-resolution done. And therefore sharpening can be automated because what needs to be done is consequent to the change in resolution.

So, yes to make the maximum use of Lightroom functions proceed as follows.
Import the raw files into Lightroom and carry out all the editing functions you can do with Lightroom including capture sharpening, and other sharpening as necessary in conjunction with any noise reduction (these two functions are inter related) if you do not require any additional editing that is not available then you can proceed to the print process.
Select the print size and other print specific processes, proceed to print and Lightroom will apply the necessary upsampling to the printer print settings e.g 720 ppi for Epson printers or 600 ppi for Canon and other printers, along with automatic output sharpening for the print size. This offers optimul results since the printer driver does not require any further adjustments.

Unfortunately there is no process to have a preview of the effects of Lightroom upsampling and output sharpening prior to the completion of the print process. As far as I know the final test of the print quality is when the print is finalised.

Its the same principal function that the printing application that I have been using since 2004 does, Qimage Ultimate.

If you need to use Photoshop or an alternative application for additional edits then this can be done and you can then proceed to print with Lightroom from the resultant tiff, psd or jpeg file and allow Lightroom to perform the resampling and output sharpening for the print process.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 09:38:06 pm by Denis de Gannes »
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Rand47

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 09:53:51 pm »

Quote
...Lightroom will apply the necessary upsampling to the printer print settings e.g 720 ppi for Epson printers or 600 ppi for Canon and other printers, ...

As I understand it, the 720 / 600 would be for images with native “on the paper” resolutions that are above 360 / 300 ppi.  If the native is below those numbers, have LR upsample (user controllable) only to 360 / 300.  Unless there’s new thinking on this?

Rand
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2018, 09:05:43 am »

As I understand it, the 720 / 600 would be for images with native “on the paper” resolutions that are above 360 / 300 ppi.  If the native is below those numbers, have LR upsample (user controllable) only to 360 / 300.  Unless there’s new thinking on this?

The general idea is that interpolating, beyond the native file resolution for a given output size, will not add real image detail. While that is generally true, it is IMHO only part of the equation.

1. There are algorithms that do add additional detail beyond what the image offered natively. "Photozoom Pro" by Benvista, and OnOne's "Resize 2018", both add additional resolution detail, so even above 300/360 PPI.
2. Having more pixels, allows improving the sharpening quality (because there are more pixels to work with at final output size and render edge detail with more precision).
3. There are a number of applications that allow improving micro-contrast at the output size, thus counteracting losses due to ink diffusion.
4. There are applications like Qimage that use their proprietary interpolation and Smart Sharpening algorithms, and resample to whatever the printer driver expects

Whether there is enough of an improvement over the relatively decent Lightroom upsampling to warrant the additional steps and time, depends on the image and on potential printer buffer limitations.

Cheers,
Bart
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FranciscoDisilvestro

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Re: Upressing in Lightroom
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2018, 05:50:36 pm »

Photoshop CC 2018 includes a new resample method, "Preserve Details 2.0" which improve upressing for some images. You need to test and compare anyway.
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