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Author Topic: free trade deal between the EU and Japan  (Read 8166 times)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2018, 03:28:20 pm »

When the US economy was humming right before the 2008 recession, people couldn't compliment Milton Greenspan quick enough.  You'd think he was Joseph, Vizier of Egypt.  Once the economy collapsed, everyone was asking, "Milton?  Milton who?"
Alan Greenspan????
Milton Friedman????
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Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2018, 03:32:43 pm »

Alan Greenspan? ???
Milton Friedman? ???

Oops.   Sorry.


"Alan who?"

Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2018, 03:33:24 pm »

Oops.   Sorry.


"Alan who?"

Trumpian slip.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2018, 07:25:15 am »

A friend sent me this Twitter thread, https://twitter.com/Stonekettle/status/1022131837257363456, made me wonder how many people feel like this that we never hear about.
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LesPalenik

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2018, 08:47:42 am »

Good commentary by Stonekettle.
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Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2018, 09:29:26 am »

A friend sent me this Twitter thread, https://twitter.com/Stonekettle/status/1022131837257363456, made me wonder how many people feel like this that we never hear about.

Robert:  Real trade negotiations have started with the EU due to Trump's tariffs.  That will put pressure on  China to do the same.  Good thing this guy isn't on the American trade negotiation side. 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-eu/trump-relents-on-eu-car-tariffs-as-u-s-china-fight-derails-qualcomm-deal-idUSKBN1KF1C3

Robert Roaldi

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2018, 09:45:02 am »

Robert:  Real trade negotiations have started with the EU due to Trump's tariffs.  That will put pressure on  China to do the same.  Good thing this guy isn't on the American trade negotiation side. 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-eu/trump-relents-on-eu-car-tariffs-as-u-s-china-fight-derails-qualcomm-deal-idUSKBN1KF1C3

Real trade negotiations go on behind the scenes all the time and have been doing so since before we were born. Did you not read Manoli's recent post above? Do you just ignore everything that sheds a different light on things and pretend it doesn't exist?
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Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2018, 09:54:36 am »

Real trade negotiations go on behind the scenes all the time and have been doing so since before we were born. Did you not read Manoli's recent post above? Do you just ignore everything that sheds a different light on things and pretend it doesn't exist?

What Manoli post?  I can't find it.  In any case, there were no meaningful negotiations going on until Trump applied tariffs.  That's why Juncker came to the US yesterday and met with our trade negotiators.   

jeremyrh

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2018, 12:52:35 pm »

What Manoli post?  I can't find it.  In any case, there were no meaningful negotiations going on until Trump applied tariffs.  That's why Juncker came to the US yesterday and met with our trade negotiators.   
Trump's actions damaged the US and also damaged Europe. Junker showed up to try to limit that damage to Europe. You tell me which is the more mature approach.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2018, 01:23:23 pm »

Cautionary story about the EU/US trade 'agreement.'  Summner is no raging liberal but a libertarian economist.  No pay wall to read this brief article.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2018, 01:45:44 pm »

What Manoli post?  I can't find it.  In any case, there were no meaningful negotiations going on until Trump applied tariffs.  That's why Juncker came to the US yesterday and met with our trade negotiators.   

Great, you also fell for Juncker's smokescreen.

In reality, the USA started a Tradewar with China. China responded with targeted countermeasures (aiming at products that are produced by Trump electorate). As a result, amongst others, Soybeans are now purchased by the Chinese in South America and the market price of North American Soybeans has dropped.

So using that knowledge as a crowbar to prevent further Tarifs on European produced goods (and countermeasures which ultimately only will cost everybody more), Junker saw an opportunity to get cheaper soybeans, avert further Tarif increases, and make progress on another longtime wish, reduce the dependence on Russian NLG and buy some USA produced gas to increase the chance that Trump would bite. Hook, line, and sinker, as far as any deal with Trump means anything (ask the Iranians and the South Koreans).

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2018, 01:54:08 pm »



In reality, the USA started a Tradewar with China. China responded with targeted countermeasures (aiming at products that are produced by Trump electorate).
Hog (pork) exports to China have collapsed to near zero along with US prices of that commodity.  I'm glad I am not a farmer.
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Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2018, 03:37:50 pm »

Trump's actions damaged the US and also damaged Europe. Junker showed up to try to limit that damage to Europe. You tell me which is the more mature approach.
It's got nothing to do with maturity.  Europe, China and others and large American corporations beholden to themselves have rolled-over weak American leadership for years.  Trump is trying to level the playing field, a difficult thing to do this late in the game.   Both Junker and Trump are big boys who know how to play the game.  In any case, trying to shame Trump won't work because he has no shame.  Just to let you know in case you haven't realized that yet.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2018, 03:43:54 pm »

Hog (pork) exports to China have collapsed to near zero along with US prices of that commodity.  I'm glad I am not a farmer.
Why do you think tariffs only hurt America?  They also are hurting China.  So XI is under pressure just as much as Trump is too settle.  If tariffs were only hurting America, Junker wouldn't be here offering to negotiate a better deal.  Europe is just as terrified of tariffs.  The German car manufacturers haven't been this fearful since they were discovered cheating on diesel emissions. Be brave.  Take the long view.  Lower tariffs will be good for everyone.

Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2018, 03:46:11 pm »

Cautionary story about the EU/US trade 'agreement.'  Summner is no raging liberal but a libertarian economist.  No pay wall to read this brief article.
Who has time to read another article?  Summarize it like you did the other earlier one.  Thanks.

Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2018, 04:07:22 pm »

Great, you also fell for Juncker's smokescreen.

In reality, the USA started a Tradewar with China. China responded with targeted countermeasures (aiming at products that are produced by Trump electorate). As a result, amongst others, Soybeans are now purchased by the Chinese in South America and the market price of North American Soybeans has dropped.

So using that knowledge as a crowbar to prevent further Tarifs on European produced goods (and countermeasures which ultimately only will cost everybody more), Junker saw an opportunity to get cheaper soybeans, avert further Tarif increases, and make progress on another longtime wish, reduce the dependence on Russian NLG and buy some USA produced gas to increase the chance that Trump would bite. Hook, line, and sinker, as far as any deal with Trump means anything (ask the Iranians and the South Koreans).

Cheers,
Bart

If it's only a smoke screen, and Europe isn't serious, Trump will go back to the mats.  Of course, getting closer to the midterms puts us in a disadvantage.  We'll see what happens.  The EU made a deal with Japan recently.  The tariffs were very reasonable.  I don't see why an arrangement can't be made between the EU and America.  Then we both can go after China who's the main problem for everyone.

Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2018, 04:19:14 pm »

Hog (pork) exports to China have collapsed to near zero along with US prices of that commodity.  I'm glad I am not a farmer.
Trump trade war: U.S. stock market is faring better than China's since dispute began
"...The Standard & Poor's 500, a stock index filled with America's biggest companies that get more than 43 percent of their revenues from overseas sales, is up 6.5 percent this year through Wednesday's close. China's Shanghai composite is down more than 12 percent over the same period, and major stock indexes in Japan and Europe are down a little less than 1 percent...

...U.S. is negotiating from position of strength. The tariff dispute comes at a time when the U.S. economy is performing extremely well, Warne says. And that enables President Trump to negotiate a better deal from a position of strength...

...Wall Street pros still believe the president's use of tariffs as a negotiating tool will likely be a winner...

...If Trump wins concessions from China or the European Union, it could prove bullish for stocks as trade terms improve for U.S. companies...

"...Right or wrong, many investors still feel the U.S. has the upper hand in this battle, and will win in the end," says Randy Frederick, vice president of trading and derivatives at the Schwab Center for Financial Research...

...And although tariffs could cause prices for consumer products ranging from cars to washing machines to rise, "the U.S. does not need China as much as China needs the U.S.," says Barry Bannister, head of institutional equity strategy at Stifel."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/07/26/stock-market-says-u-s-winning-trade-war/832596002/

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2018, 07:52:12 am »

But if the Chinese economy takes a hit the Chinese people won’t be voting anyone or any party out of power. However in America...........

A weakening economy in America is of far more consequence than a weakening economy in China. Anyway let’s hope Trump is not screwing it up and this all turns out to be an effective bargaining position. At the moment it feels like we are all tip toeing through a mine field.
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Alan Klein

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2018, 08:10:40 am »

Negotiations with the  EU are underway.  Let's hope China, Canada and Mexico follow.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: free trade deal between the EU and Japan
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2018, 08:33:18 am »

If it's only a smoke screen, and Europe isn't serious, Trump will go back to the mats.

Stuff like Soybeans is traded on an international free market. At this moment the USA produced Soybeans are relatively cheap because there is no Chinese demand anymore, so prices drop with a lack of demand. So, European companies are willing to buy in the USA. It has little to do with the meeting with Juncker, although Trump thinks he has a deal. We are not suddenly going to use more Soybeans, we just buy where they are cheap.

Quote
The EU made a deal with Japan recently.  The tariffs were very reasonable.  I don't see why an arrangement can't be made between the EU and America.

We had an agreement, and a new one was in the making , the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)).
But with an unreliable trading partner as the USA, there's no sense in making contracts like that. Add a Brexit, and nobody is going to gamble their own money on an uncertain future.

Cheers,
Bart
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