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Author Topic: Tine Cot Cemetery  (Read 976 times)

Ivo_B

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Tine Cot Cemetery
« on: July 01, 2018, 02:58:44 AM »

In this year, 2018, 100 years after the end of the horror of the first world war 14-18. Let's not forget.

Tyne Cot by Ivo Bogaerts, on Flickr

In Flanders fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
Major John McCrae – 1915
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 03:24:43 AM »

Love it. Always wanted to visit these places in Flanders.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2018, 03:52:54 AM »

If you ever have the chance to visit Flanders, take a day to visit the memorials of the war. And look further than the memorials, still nowadays you can recognize how the landscape was reshaped under the years of massive gunfire and grenade fire. Go on Sunday, and witness the last post blown under the 'Menen Poort'  Police stops the traffic, the roads are blocked, and from the town hall the bugle quartet march to the gate and blown the last post. Live played, not with battery operated fake Bugles as 'taps' are played on Funerals in the US.

I was there in my twenties for the first time, the guides where veterans and the horror was still in there eyes while telling about the fights in the trenches.

Tyne Cot by Ivo Bogaerts, on Flickr

About the poem of John McRae.
I can follow the poetry of the first part. The style of the second part however is a kind of war heroism difficult to understand by a generation never confronted whit the need to defend its values and liberty...
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 04:14:53 AM by Ivo_B »
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Rayyan

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2018, 04:05:56 AM »


Ivo, the image posted says it all.

Thanks for reminding us.

If you ever have the chance to visit Flanders, take a day to visit the memorials of the war. And look further than the memorials, still nowadays you can recognize how the landscape was reshaped under the years of massive gunfire and grenade fire.
I was there in my twenties for the first time, the guides where veterans and the horror was still in there eyes while telling about the fights in the trenches.

Tyne Cot by Ivo Bogaerts, on Flickr

About the poem of John McRae.
I can follow the poetry of the first part. The style of the second part however is a kind of war heroism difficult to understand by a generation never confronted whit the need to defend its values and liberty...
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2018, 08:28:13 AM »

Ivo, thanks for sharing these evocative images and poem. We need reminders like these.

Eric
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Two23

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2018, 11:24:11 AM »

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In contento ed allegria,
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Rob C

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2018, 07:52:53 AM »

If you ever have the chance to visit Flanders, take a day to visit the memorials of the war. And look further than the memorials, still nowadays you can recognize how the landscape was reshaped under the years of massive gunfire and grenade fire. Go on Sunday, and witness the last post blown under the 'Menen Poort'  Police stops the traffic, the roads are blocked, and from the town hall the bugle quartet march to the gate and blown the last post. Live played, not with battery operated fake Bugles as 'taps' are played on Funerals in the US.

I was there in my twenties for the first time, the guides where veterans and the horror was still in there eyes while telling about the fights in the trenches.

Tyne Cot by Ivo Bogaerts, on Flickr

About the poem of John McRae.
I can follow the poetry of the first part. The style of the second part however is a kind of war heroism difficult to understand by a generation never confronted whit the need to defend its values and liberty...


Ivo, you gotta be kidding!

The threat has never gone away; rather has it morphed and taken on less easy forms to recognise. But the battle is far from over, and unless absolute blindness afflicts the masses, it never will be.

Your, our liberties are constantly under threat; don't for a second, drop your guard.

Rob

Ivophoto

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Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2018, 11:07:51 AM »


Ivo, you gotta be kidding!

The threat has never gone away; rather has it morphed and taken on less easy forms to recognise. But the battle is far from over, and unless absolute blindness afflicts the masses, it never will be.

Your, our liberties are constantly under threat; don't for a second, drop your guard.

Rob

Peace is a relative understanding.
It is a difficult discussion you start, Rob.
I think there is a difference in perception of peace in the US, Europe and some more difficult areas like Palestine or other unstable areas on the globe.
And is the induced believe in peace on one side, and the induced fear on the other side not both serving the same purpose? Keep the crowd peaceful or fearful in both cases not moaning?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 11:38:30 AM by Ivophoto »
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Rob C

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2018, 12:29:12 PM »

Peace is a relative understanding.
It is a difficult discussion you start, Rob.
I think there is a difference in perception of peace in the US, Europe and some more difficult areas like Palestine or other unstable areas on the globe.
And is the induced believe in peace on one side, and the induced fear on the other side not both serving the same purpose? Keep the crowd peaceful or fearful in both cases not moaning?

If a discussion is not even just a little bit difficult, then it probably isn't worth having.

But people are always moaning at the system; the only ones not moaning are the ones who have not understood that there is a problem, a series of them, in fact.

I have also felt in two minds about  some of those people I used to meet in business: you know, the ones who always laughed and told you how well they were doing, and then the next week they were bust. I understand about having a positive attitude because it's far more attractive, but a little reality also goes a long way to creating some form of trust.

:-)

Ivo_B

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2018, 01:46:33 PM »

If a discussion is not even just a little bit difficult, then it probably isn't worth having.

But people are always moaning at the system; the only ones not moaning are the ones who have not understood that there is a problem, a series of them, in fact.

I have also felt in two minds about  some of those people I used to meet in business: you know, the ones who always laughed and told you how well they were doing, and then the next week they were bust. I understand about having a positive attitude because it's far more attractive, but a little reality also goes a long way to creating some form of trust.

:-)

Agree.

Did you read 'the management of savagery' ?
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Rob C

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 05:04:39 AM »

Agree.

Did you read 'the management of savagery' ?

No, I hardly read anything at all anymore.

I have filled my head with enough nonsense to last a lifetime, disagreed with so many experts and seers that I decided long ago to go live my life on my own terms (as far as money permits, which isn't very far) and let pundits preach to those who want to hear them. The trouble with writers is this: good ones can write anything at all with conviction; how can you sift what they really believe from what they write in order to get rich?

In the end, and there always is one, the best we can hope for is to be able to pass on without too much guilt.

Ivophoto

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 05:36:07 AM »

without too much guilt.

...., guilt.

I try to sort out my stupidity on a daily base to prevent guilt build up.
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Rob C

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 07:08:01 AM »

...., guilt.

I try to sort out my stupidity on a daily base to prevent guilt build up.



Then you are fortunate that you can see it for what it is so quickly.

Often, I used to think that I was being clever, and only many years later did I realise that what I had done had just given me due cause for what an old preacher used to call "the again bite of inwit". It's strange how often religion comes down more to humanity and it's foibles than to perceptions of God.

The miserable old man of the cloth had too many valid points we, as teens, used to mock.

Rob

Ivo_B

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2018, 07:41:11 AM »




Then you are fortunate that you can see it for what it is so quickly.

Often, I used to think that I was being clever, and only many years later did I realise that what I had done had just given me due cause for what an old preacher used to call "the again bite of inwit". It's strange how often religion comes down more to humanity and it's foibles than to perceptions of God.

The miserable old man of the cloth had too many valid points we, as teens, used to mock.

Rob

Well,
At least it starts to be humble enough to admit mistakes and be prepared to make things good. Thats already a nice attitude. Remorse (I suppose you point to the Ayenbite of Inwyt?) is not the same as guilt, but I have the feeling I don't need to explain that to you. :-)

It is a sad thing religion created a negative pejorative and 'believe' is misused as a target and not as a method in life.

Damn, this is getting serious.  ;D
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Rob C

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2018, 09:16:47 AM »

I'm happy to accept that guilt and remorse are not the same things, but find it equally hard to imagine the second emotion without the other initially giving rise to its unhappy companion...

Maybe I should be content just to think of myself as another of the Handlyng Synne brigade, but I gotta admit, I don't really go that far back. Some days, though, I think that I might. Anyway, I always opted for Coghill in preference to Chaucer.

;-)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 03:34:01 AM by Rob C »
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Ivophoto

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Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2018, 09:42:16 AM »

I'm happy to accept that guilt and remorse are not the same things, but find it equally hard to imagine the second emotion without the other initially giving rise to its unhappy companion...

Maybe I should be content just to think of myself as another of the Handlyng Synne brigade, but I gotta admit, I don't really go that far back. Some days, though, I think that I might. Amyway, I always opted for Coghill in preference to Chaucer.

;-)

I needed Google here, Rob. Coghill, Chaucer? You make analogies to different school systems? Hm, that’s to far from my European bed to understand the indirect, I’m afraid.
But I get the idea of your point.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 09:47:45 AM by Ivophoto »
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Telecaster

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2018, 08:10:28 PM »

Coghill translated Chaucer from English into English.  ;D  That is, from what's commonly known as Middle English (and is nearly a different language altogether) into modern English. I took a two-part Chaucer class at university…we started with Coghill in the first semester and then dove into the real deal in the second. Semester two included learning how to recite the verses in something like a 14th century accent. Lotsa rolled Rs and big & bold vowels.  :)

-Dave-
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Ivophoto

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2018, 03:11:28 AM »

Coghill translated Chaucer from English into English.  ;D  That is, from what's commonly known as Middle English (and is nearly a different language altogether) into modern English. I took a two-part Chaucer class at university…we started with Coghill in the first semester and then dove into the real deal in the second. Semester two included learning how to recite the verses in something like a 14th century accent. Lotsa rolled Rs and big & bold vowels.  :)

-Dave-

Ha, tx for this clarification, Dave. This is a complete blind spot for me.
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Rob C

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2018, 03:48:01 AM »

Ha, tx for this clarification, Dave. This is a complete blind spot for me.

It was also a complete blind spot for many of us in Britain, too! However, our young minds were tickled by reading some of the more spicy Tales that were left untouched in the classroom. I suppose it was a technique for making us explore a little further than the bare minimum required...

Regarding Dave's point about recitals in tongues: to the best of my knowledge there were no sound recording devices back then, so all attempts to emulate and teach archaic speech sounds are fake news elocution with large doses of didactic presumption tossed in to add flavour.

;-)

Telecaster

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Re: Tine Cot Cemetery
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2018, 03:09:27 PM »

Rob, trying to speak "like Chaucer" involves a lotta guess work but also a fair amount of deductive reasoning. You can make good headway just knowing that specific words are supposed to rhyme when spoken. Vowel shifts in languages over time tend to follow similar patterns too, so to an extent you can reverse the process. But it's still a best guess scenario overall. In my class reading the text aloud was great fun, which made slogging through it outside of class more bearable.  ;)

-Dave-
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