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Author Topic: The man in charge of the National Parks has his friggin' hat on backwards!  (Read 7744 times)

RSL

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Do you, Russ?  It doesn't seem like it based on what you seem to be implying in the related scenario.

Phil, if the age in your profile is correct I suspect you never dialed a number to which you wanted to connect your computer, listened for the modem tones, then put your phone handset into your local modem in order to make a computer connection. That's what the term "modem" refers to: modulate and demodulate tones. We used to make data transfers with actual tones sent down the phone line. Nowadays we use a digital bridge, which sends digital signal packets down the line outside the sound bandwidth of the phone. It's always connected. You no longer have to get tonal handshaking going before you can send and receive. You even can use your telephone while the transfer is going on. We still call the box we use as a digital bridge a "modem," but it's not a modem.

That explain it for you? I've forgotten exactly when we stopped using modems, but I did for a long time.

And Les, since your age is N/A I'm sure you never saw or heard a modem.

digitaldog

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My first modem was 1200 baud if memory serves me. Maybe 600, those brain cells are gone. I recall how thrilled I was when I move to an ISDN line! It was fast. In those days.
Anyway, this is utterly off topic. The 'do you know the difference' is a rabbit hole you invented for a reason I can't understand, nor should I have to.

That occurred to me too, Alan, but Colin was Secretary of State during George W's administration. I don't remember using modems during that period.
Seems utterly off topic, and like we see with our president, a obvious distraction from the original point made that some here have forgotten due to the distraction so let's refocus:

Here is a more in depth article from The Guardian that goes over other practices by Colin Powell.  I am especially amused by this, "Powell has previously admitted using a laptop on a private line and sending notes to ambassadors and foreign ministers via personal email, according to a report by the state department’s inspector general."  Nothing better than using the telephone system in the good old days of modems.
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Andrew Rodney
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degrub

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i thought the original point was about hat bands.
110 baud original.
or toggle switches for boot sequences into 8/16 bit registers.
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Alan Klein

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The big difference is one woman knew what she was doing (nothing illegal) the other guy doesn’t (nothing illegal).

Here's Comey' statement about Hillary's emails.  It's pretty condemning.  Maybe not as condemning as putting on a hat backwards, but pretty bad nonetheless. 

"...Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.

For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).

None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail.

Separately, it is important to say something about the marking of classified information. Only a very small number of the e-mails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information. But even if information is not marked “classified” in an e-mail, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it..."


https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

digitaldog

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i thought the original point was about hat bands.
110 baud original.
or toggle switches for boot sequences into 8/16 bit registers.
Indeed, just less than half a dozen posts, Jeff’s topic was Hijacked.
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog

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Here's Comey' statement about Hillary's emails.  It's pretty condemning.  Maybe not as condemning as putting on a hat backwards, but pretty bad nonetheless.
Condemning maybe, but that's as far as it's gone, long after Comey was fired. So now, in this context, Comey is an OK guy, but when he discusses Trump, that's fake news?
Again, if you have evidence Hillary's case should be reopened, provide that evidence; here, to the FBI/DOJ, etc. She and Powell, yeah, more commending than putting on a hat backwards. Both were apparently far smarter and sharper than the bozo with the stuffed animal.
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Andrew Rodney
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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My first modem was 300 baud, and functioned the way Russ described.
My present modem (and it is still called a modem, by Verizon) connects my home PC and network to Verizon's fiber optic network.
Obviously, its internal functioning is way different from the days of 3300 and 1200 baud modems.

But in my 35 years as a professor of math and computer science, I never heard the term "digital bridge." Perhaps it's some local Florida custom.
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digitaldog

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But in my 35 years as a professor of math and computer science, I never heard the term "digital bridge." Perhaps it's some local Florida custom.
Ditto, and using 'the Google' didn't help either. Fake news, made up term? Here in the Coffee Corner? Impossible! Sarcasm over, I did find this, it's not a modem!
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Andrew Rodney
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LesPalenik

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And Les, since your age is N/A I'm sure you never saw or heard a modem.

Russ, I used my first 300B modem in mid seventies, they were then larger in size than today's cable modems.
And here is a recent picture of my very clean, but much smaller 9600B modem.

digitaldog

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem
There is 'digital' to be found here.
There is 'bridge' to be found here.
There is no "digital bridge" to be found here.
Still looking..... :o
Nothing there about how to wear a hat...
But there IS this:
https://theidleman.com/manual/advice/how-wear-hat/
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Andrew Rodney
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Alan Klein

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Phil, if the age in your profile is correct I suspect you never dialed a number to which you wanted to connect your computer, listened for the modem tones, then put your phone handset into your local modem in order to make a computer connection. That's what the term "modem" refers to: modulate and demodulate tones. We used to make data transfers with actual tones sent down the phone line. Nowadays we use a digital bridge, which sends digital signal packets down the line outside the sound bandwidth of the phone. It's always connected. You no longer have to get tonal handshaking going before you can send and receive. You even can use your telephone while the transfer is going on. We still call the box we use as a digital bridge a "modem," but it's not a modem.

That explain it for you? I've forgotten exactly when we stopped using modems, but I did for a long time.

And Les, since your age is N/A I'm sure you never saw or heard a modem.
  My first experience with modems was as a Top Secret crypto technician in the USAF 1963-1967.  So they were around then at least.  They were used to modulate and demodulate voice into data streams for encryption through a crypto machine.  At that time, the modems did not modulate voice into enough levels.  So when a general spoke to another general who he knew personally, he couldn't recognize their voice.  So they were very untrusting of the early system.  Of course today, we modulate voice and music with ease and clarity.  But in the beginning, it was very basic and coarse.

LesPalenik

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem
There is 'digital' to be found here.
There is 'bridge' to be found here.
There is no "digital bridge" to be found here.
Still looking..... :o
Nothing there about how to wear a hat...
But there IS this:
https://theidleman.com/manual/advice/how-wear-hat/

Andrew, it looks like somebody is trying  to sell you a digital bridge.

Alan Klein

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Interesting progression. 

We went from mocking someone for accidentally putting his hat on backwards, which for all intents and purposes looks exacting the same from any angle except for a small brass detail, to the differences between Colin Powell and HRC email practices, something I thought we got past back in Nov. 2016.

Totally natural and logical to me. 

Just to clarify.  It wasn't his hat.  He doesn't own it or a hat like it.  It was given to him just for the advertisement photograph. But you're right; it was an easy mistake to make.

digitaldog

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But you're right; it was an easy mistake to make.
As expected:

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Andrew Rodney
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Alan Klein

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Condemning maybe, but that's as far as it's gone, long after Comey was fired. So now, in this context, Comey is an OK guy, but when he discusses Trump, that's fake news?
Again, if you have evidence Hillary's case should be reopened, provide that evidence; here, to the FBI/DOJ, etc. She and Powell, yeah, more commending than putting on a hat backwards. Both were apparently far smarter and sharper than the bozo with the stuffed animal.

I always thought the fight about classified government messages on the server was a distraction to the real issue Hillary wanted to avoid discussing.  And that was the 30,000 private messages she deleted that no one ever saw.  You see, the server was set up for the purpose of her never having to show anyone any private messages.  The messages she didn't want to ever come to light were between her and foreign and local contributors to the Clinton Foundation slush fund that that made the Clinton's millions.  Who knows what other shenanigans were in those deleted emails? Who believed her when she said she only deleted her mother-in-laws recipes and discussions about holiday get-togethers?  If she used government servers, those private messages would have been memorialized forever. 

Farmer

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Phil, if the age in your profile is correct I suspect you never dialed a number to which you wanted to connect your computer, listened for the modem tones, then put your phone handset into your local modem in order to make a computer connection.

You'd be entirely wrong.  I used an acoustic coupler modem for the first time in 1983 (300 baud) at the age of 13.  I started using modems regularly in 1987, but they were not acoustic couplers, but rather direct connection acoustic devices, starting with, at the time, a very fancy 2400 baud and over the years moving up and using a 9600 baud (briefly), then a 12000 baud (Zyxel - proprietary 12k rate, but supported standard 9600), then 14k4, 28k8, 56k, then moving away from acoustic devices on to cable modems and then ADSL.  That was all personal use.  In business, from the mid 90's to the early 2000's, my laptops had modems that could connect directly to the bank's computers to access various systems - done with acoustic connections, of course.

I could pick the connection speed by listening to the connection negotiation and, more than one, cancelled a call to try again to get a better connection (particularly when I was making international calls to pick up and deliver Fidonet and other FTN mail packets before I was involved in a little project that started to tunnel those packets via the internet (UUCP)) so I could do large transfers using Y-modem instead of Z-modem because Y-modem had no CRC and was therefore faster, so long as you had a clean enough line to not need the CRC (or sometimes just because I was going to be connected for a while and a cleaner connection was just plain nicer and less chance of dropping out).

That's what the term "modem" refers to: modulate and demodulate tones. We used to make data transfers with actual tones sent down the phone line.

I know.  It wasn't a big mystery.

Nowadays we use a digital bridge, which sends digital signal packets down the line outside the sound bandwidth of the phone. It's always connected. You no longer have to get tonal handshaking going before you can send and receive. You even can use your telephone while the transfer is going on. We still call the box we use as a digital bridge a "modem," but it's not a modem.

Again, I know.  You're referring to DSL services, they use a higher frequency.  They're still called modems, as you concede.


That explain it for you? I've forgotten exactly when we stopped using modems, but I did for a long time.

Oh, I've never been in doubt as to what a modem is or what DSL is (or that when you say digital bridge you are referring to DSL services).  The point, which you've missed entirely, is that if Powell was connecting or sending email via a "private line" from his laptop, he was either using an actual modem to connect to another computer or an ISP, or he was connecting via DSL using a device commonly referred to as a modem either to an ISP or to some other computer.  The point is that it was a private line and not connected via the approved methods.  The rest is just obfuscation on your part and a very silly attempt to suggest that only someone of your vintage would understand or be aware of acoustic (coupler or otherwise) modems and related technologies or that they wouldn't have used them.

FWIW, I was also programming Z80 processers in Assembler in 1981 and I helped to assemble my highschool's Mircobee kit computers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroBee) in the mid 80's, and helping to set up the Token Ring network in the computer room where the Microbees were.  That was '85 IIRC.

This is just technology that I grew up with, Russ - it's not bloody magic.

EDIT: Andrew Mentioned ISDN - yes, very fast!  I never had it myself, but I had a few clients in the early 2000's with them.
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Phil Brown

Farmer

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I never heard the term "digital bridge."

Nor had I, but the context took me to assume it referred to DSL services, and that turned out to be the case, and it's not an unreasonable term so I assume it was used somewhere at some point or is just a general, descriptive term that Russ has used (which is fine).
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Phil Brown

Eric Myrvaagnes

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So to connect this with the original post, if Ryan Zinke ever had to use an acoustic coupler modem, I wonder which way he would have plugged the handset into it?   ???
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Schewe

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Backwards, of course, cause he is pretty dumb.
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LesPalenik

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Or worse still, he might put the acoustic coupler on his ear. And then put the hat back on.
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