Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Live view excellence.  (Read 835 times)

bluekorn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
Live view excellence.
« on: June 28, 2018, 04:48:20 PM »

Which of the mirrorless cameras that has “live view” delivers an image to the lcd that most closely represents what the sensor will deliver in terms of white balance, color, etc? Which comes closest to “what you see is what you get”? (I know there are many out there that resent questions that don’t challenge their considerable technical chops. To them let me say that when I tried to pose this question on the beginner’s site I was unable to bring it up.) The two mirrorless cameras that I have handled brighten the LCD screen image in low light so much that it is impossible to even guess at what might be forthcoming.
Thanks very much.
Logged

Rory

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 512
    • Recent images
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 05:02:21 PM »

Viewing an LCD is highly variable, depending on your viewing environment.  The EVF has the potential to be better as you shade it with your eye, but they all basically suck.  If you have to pick one I guess the latest Sony EVF is the best, but they still don't do a good job of matching what you'll see on your monitor at home.
Logged
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/roryhi

chez

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2018, 09:21:46 AM »

The LCD displays a jpeg version of what the sensor captures and the jpeg image is dictated by the settings in the camera.
Logged

Rand47

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1350
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 09:30:17 AM »

The LCD displays a jpeg version of what the sensor captures and the jpeg image is dictated by the settings in the camera.

True enough.  In the case of Fuji cameras, with their film simulations and the ability to adjust jpeg settings to tune highlight and shadow treatment, color, sharpness, etc., it is possible to tune the jpeg settings (ergo the LCD display) to closely resemble your preferred starting point with raw files.  The jpeg rendered on the LCD is still missing the additional headroom for highlights, of course, but with the “blinkies” turned on and a little testing, one can learn “how much blinkies” can be toearated w/o actually clipping the highlights.

I’m reasonably sure other brands/models must have something similar.

Rand
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 09:34:20 AM by Rand47 »
Logged
Rand Scott Adams

bluekorn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 04:04:01 PM »

Thank you all. If I’ve got this right what I see on the LCD is a JPEG file or it will be when it’s loaded on my computer. So then as I tune the parameters offered in the set up menu I will actually be tuning the starting point for a jpeg that first appears on the lcd. Is it right to say that there is an advantage to using the set up menu to get as close as possible to the way you want to see the image printed because in post processing jpegs the opportunities for making adjustments are far fewer than when working with raw files?
Logged

Jonathan Cross

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 147
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2018, 01:41:57 PM »

This is probably no the answer you want.  I always do my processing using RAW files.  I have control over white balance, highlights, shadows etc., etc. then and so do not rely on the LCD for any of these considerations.  I do use the LCD for composition, framing, critical focus (esp manual), and for looking at the RGB histograms so that I expose to the right.  To do what you are asking is more than I want to do at the time of shooting and is too much for my little brain.  I would rather spend time on those considerations later.  Part of this way of working may be do with my shooting in a variety of situations, landscape, wildlife, people and events.  The first two are what I want, the other two are what I get asked to do!



Logged
Jonathan in UK

Denis de Gannes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2018, 08:46:51 PM »

True enough.  In the case of Fuji cameras, with their film simulations and the ability to adjust jpeg settings to tune highlight and shadow treatment, color, sharpness, etc., it is possible to tune the jpeg settings (ergo the LCD display) to closely resemble your preferred starting point with raw files.  The jpeg rendered on the LCD is still missing the additional headroom for highlights, of course, but with the “blinkies” turned on and a little testing, one can learn “how much blinkies” can be toearated w/o actually clipping the highlights.

I’m reasonably sure other brands/models must have something similar.

Rand

Your expectation is only relevant if you are using the software provided by your Camera Manufacturer to process the raw files. Other providers of software for the rendering of raw files utilise their own proprietary, profiles and processes to render the data. They do not have access to the proprietary raw processing profiles and technology, of your camera manufacturer,  to process the raw data. They can only do their best to simulate the rendition.
And they provide you with their own specific tools and processing algorithms for you to produce "hopefully" a superior final image file i.e an alternative.

I am speaking here as an example, if you have used your camera to make special settings and adjustments to create an image you are proud off and wish to produce the exact or as close as possible to what you see and recall then you need to capture the image as a jpeg or tiff file which the firmware in your camera will produce. If you capture the info as a raw file, the raw data is not altered but is saved as captured and the camera settings are recorded in the file header. The problem is that the special settings in the file header can only be read by the software provided by your camera manufacturer's software. Hope this helps, I have tried not to be to technical.

It all depends what you are trying to create, an image that is pleasing or an image that is realistic. This is very subjective.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 09:20:33 PM by Denis de Gannes »
Logged
Equip: iMac (Ret. 5K,27"Mid 2015),macOS 10.13.6

Denis de Gannes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 09:43:03 PM »

Just on a side line, if you are going to capture the raw data, why go through the bother to, make all these special adjustments you mention prior to making the image capture, if you concentrate on, exposure, composure, control of depth of field, focus, shutter speed, ISO setting and capture the moment.
The rest can be applied after in post processing with your Camera Manufacturer Software that can make all the special setting you mention that you can do in the Camera.
Then you also have the raw data you can youse with other third party of your choice to make an alternative rendition. To me this is the benefits of shooting RAW.
In addition its likely you can apply the special settings that you make prior to making the capture after thee capture using the camera firmware. 
Logged
Equip: iMac (Ret. 5K,27"Mid 2015),macOS 10.13.6

nma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 11:23:44 PM »

The OP has made some unfounded assumptions assumptions about how the jpeg and raw exposure can be determined. The Live View or EVF image should not be used to judge proper exposure. It just won't work, except in rather average lighting situations.

In my work I set the jpeg parameters to low contrast, no sharpening, and low saturation. This is to improve the utility of the RGB histogram.  Used with  the over and under exposure indicators, I can expose to the right, so the histogram gives a good approximation of what the raw exposure will show.  In the raw converter, the image exposed to the right has its "exposure" reduced while adjusting the other raw conversion parameters (contrast, shadows, highlights, etc). This procedure reliably produces properly exposed images.

Logged

D Fuller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 288
    • airstream.pictures
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 12:36:05 AM »

Which of the mirrorless cameras that has “live view” delivers an image to the lcd that most closely represents what the sensor will deliver in terms of white balance, color, etc? Which comes closest to “what you see is what you get”? (I know there are many out there that resent questions that don’t challenge their considerable technical chops. To them let me say that when I tried to pose this question on the beginner’s site I was unable to bring it up.) The two mirrorless cameras that I have handled brighten the LCD screen image in low light so much that it is impossible to even guess at what might be forthcoming.
Thanks very much.

None of them can do that, because the dynamic range of the viewfinders is less than the dynamic range of the sensors. But of the None, Leica SL does it the best.
Logged
website: www.airstream.pictures
portfolio: airstream.format.com

BAB

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 295
Re: Live view excellence.
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 06:11:34 PM »

BluekornYou would be better advised to study your histogram or live histogram and shoot with your camera so that neither of the three channels are clipped or slamup against the wall when viewing the file in Rawviewer.It would be nice and we all want Live View from a RAW file!By knowing when a color channel is clipped or BLOWN OUT you will have the possibility to PP your original files with all the greatness they can deliver. Beware of LR it will not show you when a image is clipping for your particular camera LR is only a guide for many camera systems. Once you know your cameras limitations you can also be confident that your capturing all the data in the dynamic range that is possible with your camera sensor.
May the Force Be With YA!
Logged
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times - "Bruce Lee"
Pages: [1]   Go Up