Does a photo lie or its caption?

[Rob C]

In the Doll vs Pot topic, I could have used this one (see below) completely on the opposite side of the scale. What would be the reaction here? That this setting blows away the subtile dynamite of the doll?

Nearly every photographer of graveyards or abandoned places carry a kind of doll with him, it is so cheap, dynamite or not. The pot picture abstract from the obvious, and that makes the image interesting for me.

There you are: the black/white "doll" carries a bang because of the tones, the location and the juxtaposition of death and faux life. The doll was stillborn at the factory. I can imagine a host of implications in the photograph.

I had no idea some photographers carried dolls in their backpacks; no wonder some get funny looks from the passing public. No wonder so many versions of backpack are available! Family-size must be available too, I guess.

But the pot, regardless of what it might have meant to the photographer at the time, is just a bland representation of what was. It is the equivalent of a picture of somebody climbing into a bus. Ony if that someone is in some way special, does it register. If not special, just another example of what is, with no further excitement to impart. Is that really worth shooting and processing?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... However when an image merely triggers projection of the viewer on the image, i personally consider it shoddy art, because while it may be psychologically revealling, it also means your art expression was no better than a Rorschach test.

What if the whole art, and in particular modern and abstract art, is one giant Rorschach’s test?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

..l Is that really worth shooting and processing?

A photo of a decaying, abandoned pot/plant might be.

[Rob C]

What if the whole art, and in particular modern and abstract art, is one giant Rorschach’s test?

I think that you might have a point, going back at least into the 19th century.

I'd suggest it began when the appreciation of good draughtsmanship began to fade. Drip-art can be nothing but what you suggested it might. Which does not imply that I don't like a lot of that sort of artwork. I think my interest in "found painting" stems from the same root, and as I am lacking in the painterly skills, the camera lets me play on the edges... However, even with the dripping paint, you can't do it well without a great sense of colour and dynamics: the artist's mind is always essential.

Rob

[Rob C]

A photo of a decaying, abandoned pot/plant might be.

Agreed 100%.

A photo-journey around my terrace, post green-fingered Ann, might reward me with a new series!

Rob

[32BT]

What if the whole art, and in particular modern and abstract art, is one giant Rorschach’s test?

Then it wouldn't enrich our lifes...

[Ivophoto]

I think that you might have a point, going back at least into the 19th century.

I'd suggest it began when the appreciation of good draughtsmanship began to fade. Drip-art can be nothing but what you suggested it might. Which does not imply that I don't like a lot of that sort of artwork. I think my interest in "found painting"s stems from the same root, and as I am lacking in the painterly skills, the camera lets me play on the edges... However, even with the dripping paint, you can't do it well without a great sense of colour and dynamics: the artist's mind is always essential.

Rob

I can loose a whole day looking at a Pollock. I had friends who practiced the drip painting plus sliding and rolling on the canvas, they never came close to even one Pollock drip. Because your quote: the artist's mind is always essential.

[Rob C]

Then it wouldn't enrich our lifes...

Why not, Oscar?

It's what we think we see and learn that brings the richness or otherwise. As per the Leiter ponytail shot referred to elsewhere, it's the revelation of a truth behind the shot that can sometimes disappoint.

[32BT]

Why not, Oscar?

It's what we think we see and learn that brings the richness or otherwise. As per the Leiter ponytail shot referred to elsewhere, it's the revelation of a truth behind the shot that can sometimes disappoint.

But that only surfaces insights that are already available, even if only on a subconscious level previously. It doesn't provide new insights or experiences, ones that can be applied later in different context.

An abstraction, if understood, allows one to transfer an experience from one event to a different event. A Rorschach test primarily surfaces an experience that someone was most likely already applying to a different event...

[Rob C]

But that only surfaces insights that are already available, even if only on a subconscious level previously. It doesn't provide new insights or experiences, ones that can be applied later in different context.

An abstraction, if understood, allows one to transfer an experience from one event to a different event. A Rorschach test primarily surfaces an experience that someone was most likely already applying to a different event...

You're looking for photographic original sin.

;-)

[32BT]

You're looking for photographic original sin.

;-)

 

No, that be your expertise...

On the other hand, considering what painters have presented us over the course of history, that would hardly be surprising. Which kind of negates my argument, i realize. :-(

[RSL]

The flower pot is just what it looks like. Correct.  And different viewer have different reactions on it. So how does that match?
It’s the viewers projection.
This is an important mechanism and used in conceptual and cerebral art. Why could photography not be of that kind?

I was walking in the mall today, Ivo. You usually do that this time of year because of the temperature and humidity outside. I thought about your pot as I walked by this closed room. This is just what it looks like: a table on its side and a dustpan on the floor. In concept it's very much like your dark pot in a blank, uninteresting hallway. How to you react to it? What's your projection?

[Ivo_B]

I was walking in the mall today, Ivo. You usually do that this time of year because of the temperature and humidity outside. I thought about your pot as I walked by this closed room. This is just what it looks like: a table on its side and a dustpan on the floor. In concept it's very much like your dark pot in a blank, uninteresting hallway. How to you react to it? What's your projection?

Take a look at the plant in pot picture and look at the perspective, it is not just a snapshot.
Your shot does have some potential, why don't you use your composition skills to photograph these kind of images? Everything can by photographed in such a way it is a good picture. That makes things interesting and would enhance your daily mall walk. It could solve your summer light in Florida quest. I took the liberty to tweak your shot in a way I would have approached it, if this scene would have grasped my attention (it wouldn't, I guess)
That does not mean I find the image not worth looking at. I ask myself why was this picture made? I look true the fence, I can imagine it is  a closed slot in the male? And then I wonder.... How is it possible this mall owner doesn't provide a cache l'oeil to keep the shopping experience optimal. Or is this there an economic issue in your neighborhood? Or did you put me on the wrong leg (very legitimate) ... etc etc
Even in this snapshot there is enough to look at, only, if men want to take the effort and have the open mind.

Serious, at this moment you get killed in Florida by heat and moisture and you have to wait until bearable weather, why don't you take the challenge and try your composition skills to make a decent photo of nothing.
Wy don't you post this in the topic I opened?

[RSL]

Your shot does have some potential. . .

Ivo, neither my shot nor your pot has ANY potential at all.

[Ivo_B]

Ivo, neither my shot nor your pot has ANY potential at all.

Ha well, wat baat kaars en bril..... (Wat is the use of a candle and glasses....)

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... why don't you take the challenge and try your composition skills to make a decent photo of nothing.

We are too old to practice our skills on nothing, Ivo. At least I am. I can hardly lift my camera at spectacular, let alone nothing.

[Ivophoto]

We are too old to practice our skills on nothing, Ivo. At least I am. I can hardly lift my camera at spectacular, let alone nothing.

I did see some examples of the spectacular in the landscape section.



All this modernisme is not very Lula,

[Rob C]

I have to come clean: most of my present photography is the trying to make a something out of a nothing; you know, silk purse and sow's ears?

And yes, you are quite right: it does pass the time.

Trouble is, all amateur photography is about that, both the humble/exotic holiday meal-shot as the selfie, and the landscape when there's no storm... It's the problem defined by Donovan, and I've repeated it so often everybody and his dog knows it by heart by now. The only viable, worthwhile alternative to commission is the commission of sin in the snapping of people who are not expecting the service.

Basically, only people are interesting enough to warrant the effort, frustration and oft-experienced disappointment of abject failure. Only people provide one with the challenge of something that has the wit to outwit one. That's why so few people want to face the challenge: they could lose. That's why fashion was always a buzz: not only did you have to beat the hell out of the clothes, you had to make sure the girl was on your side too; they can be with you but against you, all at the same time. And still get paid. Whilst you carry the can.

Would you spend time, had you the choice, on a less demanding, less psychologically testing photographic adventure?

[elliot_n]

Donovan was a hack.

[Ivophoto]

.

Would you spend time, had you the choice, on a less demanding, less psychologically testing photographic adventure?

The moment I loose the ability to be wondered by what I see daily, I will have to make this decision.

It’s not the first full time pro who sits in his chair with a killed passion after or even during his career