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Author Topic: RED 8K major price cuts  (Read 940 times)

BernardLanguillier

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RED 8K major price cuts
« on: May 28, 2018, 04:52:53 PM »

What do you guys think about the major price cuts Red just announced on their 8K brains?

Cheers,
Bernard

UlfKrentz

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 03:54:03 AM »

Happened in the past in a similar way. It´s all about the timing of your purchases. A camera is no investment, if you can´t make money by using it. If you don´t want to loose money in our business buy C-stands. A lot of customers are pissed, even more are happy, you obviously can´t please everybody, bold move nevertheless. My 2ct. Cheers!

Chris Sanderson

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2018, 11:12:31 AM »

What fascinates me is the way Red President, Jarred Land, shares his business decisions with his customers, indeed with the public.

It appears that the first rule of business is to stay in business - profitably. That way you serve your customers and yourself best in the long term even if you piss a few off in the near term. Yet even the customers who are ticked off remain, apparently, fiercely loyal.
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bcooter

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 04:30:41 PM »

Happened in the past in a similar way. It´s all about the timing of your purchases. A camera is no investment, if you can´t make money by using it. If you don´t want to loose money in our business buy C-stands. A lot of customers are pissed, even more are happy, you obviously can´t please everybody, bold move nevertheless. My 2ct. Cheers!

Ulf,  I agree.    Buying a camera is not like flipping a house for profit.   Then again, you want as much usability and life from a $34,000 to $50,000 piece of equipment as long as possible and unless you plan to rent your kit out (I don't) you need the projects to make use of them to turn a profit.   

I rarely go on the RED forums because the posts usually ends with "way to go Jim, yahoo RED".  There owners are very loyal.   As I mentioned early on RED changed the landscape for digital cinema cameras and I've had great luck with mine, though from buying my initial cameras to small parts has sometimes been a bumpy road.     

Quote
What fascinates me is the way Red President, Jarred Land, shares his business decisions with his customers, indeed with the public.
It appears that the first rule of business is to stay in business - profitably. That way you serve your customers and yourself best in the long term even if you piss a few off in the near term. Yet even the customers who are ticked off remain, apparently, fiercely loyal.

Chris,

I wouldn't say RED is more transparent than any other camera company.    Very early on with RED just testing lenses at their Hollywood location, you'd think you needed a secret hand shake to get an answer on long term serviceability or anything RED related for that matter. 

RED has been more open lately and I don't expect RED to announce something a year in advance, but up to two weeks ago they would have sold me a Scarlet Dragon or a Helium as soon as I gave them the credit card and for a year I've been getting calls from RED to trade in my MXs for a Helium and I would think if there were big plans on changes the reps would know, at least two weeks ago. 

I know other companies work the same way, but RED is not cheap and it usually takes them a few firmware updates to get to a non issue camera.   

Anyway I wish them the best, love their workflow, but as of today I'm not sure which direction I would go.

IMO

BC


BernardLanguillier

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 06:19:51 PM »

It appears that the first rule of business is to stay in business - profitably. That way you serve your customers and yourself best in the long term even if you piss a few off in the near term. Yet even the customers who are ticked off remain, apparently, fiercely loyal.

As a side note, it's funny how loyal customers of a 2,000 US$ DSLR are fanboys while loyal customers of a 40,000 US$ system are just loyal. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

BartvanderWolf

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 11:50:56 AM »

As a side note, it's funny how loyal customers of a 2,000 US$ DSLR are fanboys while loyal customers of a 40,000 US$ system are just loyal. ;)

Hi Bernard,

That's because the difference between men and boys, is the price of their 'toys'.

Cheers,
Bart
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bcooter

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 01:23:44 PM »

As a side note, it's funny how loyal customers of a 2,000 US$ DSLR are fanboys while loyal customers of a 40,000 US$ system are just loyal. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

You probably have perused the RED forum, because most of it is yea boy, way to go Jim, RED, RED, RED, even if they want 20 grand to upgrade your new camera which offers 20% more and your recently purchased camera dropped 40%.

IMO

BC

fredjeang2

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 02:44:59 PM »

You probably have perused the RED forum, because most of it is yea boy, way to go Jim, RED, RED, RED, even if they want 20 grand to upgrade your new camera which offers 20% more and your recently purchased camera dropped 40%.

IMO

BC
True. The Red forum often slides on a JJ big guru idolatry, fetishism and twilight state brand mystic parade. (something I must say I haven't seen in Arri's users, at least in my experience.)
Having said that, there are also really knowledgeable people ready to help. The key is to choose the sections/topics,
carefully avoiding fanboyism vapors.
For example, I've been mailed in private by a really big fish in this industry saying: ”if you need any help with Mistika don't hesitate to mail me here, I'll help you”, which is very rare.
He owns a complete suite that I know. And the guy did that by himself just to let me know I could count on him. I didn't knock on his door. Nice.
So there are 2 sides of the coin. It can be an extremely boring place to be or a truly reliable source of knowledge also.
The trick is to avoid Red brand discussions and when things get more general, the level of posters can be very high indeed.

I also like (and get often amused by) the Graeme interventions. When he pops up, nobody understands anything except a few, the very same... ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 07:23:23 PM by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 06:30:08 PM »

What fascinates me is the way Red President, Jarred Land, shares his business decisions with his customers, indeed with the public.

It appears that the first rule of business is to stay in business - profitably. That way you serve your customers and yourself best in the long term even if you piss a few off in the near term. Yet even the customers who are ticked off remain, apparently, fiercely loyal.
JJ is quite singular as you point (as a character). He runs his brand in a Steve McQueen's style. I think it plays a big role in the customer's loyalty.  Just look at the differences between Arri site and Red's. It's day and night. 2 opposite business model-philosophy.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:35:38 PM by fredjeang2 »
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bcooter

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 01:53:52 PM »

Fred,

The RED forum can be useful with a lot of people to help, it just takes a while to find it.

Last week I received notification from RED that these cameras "seem" to still be in the offering.   

http://www.red.com/products?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Footer_Links

Now I don't know if this means they are continuing with more than one body, or they are just clearing stock.

IMO

BC

D Fuller

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2018, 10:08:04 PM »

Fred,

The RED forum can be useful with a lot of people to help, it just takes a while to find it.

Last week I received notification from RED that these cameras "seem" to still be in the offering.   

http://www.red.com/products?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Footer_Links

Now I don't know if this means they are continuing with more than one body, or they are just clearing stock.

IMO

BC

They're clearing stock so they can continue with only one body. Three sensors, you pick which one you want, but the body will be the same for all of them.

I think it's a smart move--simplifies the rather confusing lines (as in "Why are the Helium sensor/Carbon-fiber frame rates different from a Helium in some other body?"), so productions that rent can know what they're renting, and more importantly, they can focus on one host platform for the firmware and maybe get it to stable sooner than they have in the past.

The pricing stuff caused a ruckus, but that's really just the way electronics are. Don't kid yourself that it's an "investment" and don't finance more than you can really afford. (Not meaning you, BC, I know you know that-- but the folks who have been screaming on Reduser.)

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fredjeang2

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2018, 04:20:38 AM »



The pricing stuff caused a ruckus, but that's really just the way electronics are. Don't kid yourself that it's an "investment" and don't finance more than you can really afford. (Not meaning you, BC, I know you know that-- but the folks who have been screaming on Reduser.)
I think this could be applied in general. If lenses are an investment, bodies (except for rental houses), are a bit like a pair
Of Louboutin sneakers. In cine or photo.
And financing more than one can afford is one of the big problem our societies are facing and the main reason for Spain's decline. Debt is the big plague.
Curiously, Red managed to attract for some reasons a customer profile that does not
Need nor make profit with this kind of equipment. They end to be overwhelmed and felt spoiled; the very same movement
Took place in mortgages with the results we all know.
The only camera I can think of that is an investment to some extend is the Leica M. (Precisely because it's not that much about electronic evolution but more about the ”how").
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 04:26:28 AM by fredjeang2 »
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smthopr

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2018, 06:03:57 AM »

I think this could be applied in general. If lenses are an investment, bodies (except for rental houses), are a bit like a pair
Of Louboutin sneakers. In cine or photo.
And financing more than one can afford is one of the big problem our societies are facing and the main reason for Spain's decline. Debt is the big plague.
Curiously, Red managed to attract for some reasons a customer profile that does not
Need nor make profit with this kind of equipment. They end to be overwhelmed and felt spoiled; the very same movement
Took place in mortgages with the results we all know.
The only camera I can think of that is an investment to some extend is the Leica M. (Precisely because it's not that much about electronic evolution but more about the ”how").
C’mon , you know you want one!
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fredjeang2

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2018, 09:14:27 AM »

C’mon , you know you want one!
Which? The Red or the Leica M? ;)  ;D

Ps (talking Leica, I'm with the CL momentanly and man, I wish (bold, underlined, red color no pun intended)...
I wish all cameras had such a menu system with the exact same 2 dials. I can't think of a
Simplier/better way to operate a camera. Brilliant.
Mmmmm...I may want to see this M I don't need in my local store...
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bcooter

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 12:38:02 PM »

C’mon , you know you want one!

I honestly don't know which way RED is going.   They have a deal with Panavision to offer the main parts of the camera though Panavision will handle the color science and obviously it's only a rental through Panavision.   On REDs current site they offer less today than they did 5 years ago and I don't really see price cuts, it seems to me they had a price rise.

I agree don't buy if your projects don't warrant it, but then again owning offers some great possibilities in testing, shooting under slightly tighter budgets and most of all really learning the camera front to back.

It seems to me RED has opted out of anything close to entry level, but maybe that's a game they don't want to play.

IMO

BC

     

D Fuller

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 07:36:44 PM »

I honestly don't know which way RED is going.   

...

It seems to me RED has opted out of anything close to entry level, but maybe that's a game they don't want to play.

IMO

BC
   

As I look at it, it seems that entry level may have been redefined down. When I bought my Red One, the body cost $17,995 or thereabouts. Today the DSMC2 line starts at $19,500 with the Gemini sensor. Not much of a price increase in 10 years.

But the entry level is Raven, where a ready-to shoot (just add lens) system is $14,999.95. If entry level for video is a Sony a7iii, that’s a lot of money, but in 2008, entry level was a Canon DSLR, so not much has changed, really, has it?
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fredjeang2

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 01:30:15 PM »

... but in 2008, entry level was a Canon DSLR, so not much has changed, really, has it?
I think it did a bit.
We had entry level 2 grands Canon or similar then a huge step to 15000 and above with nothing really in between except a few video cameras.
Now we got Blackmagic covering the middle field and entry level mirrorless much more usable than what we had.
So, yeah, we got more or less the same but a bit better.
....but now we have ACES!...
And hdr and 8k...
And more log curves with plenty of luts to cope with...
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D Fuller

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Re: RED 8K major price cuts
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2018, 05:53:18 PM »

I think it did a bit.
We had entry level 2 grands Canon or similar then a huge step to 15000 and above with nothing really in between except a few video cameras.
Now we got Blackmagic covering the middle field and entry level mirrorless much more usable than what we had.
So, yeah, we got more or less the same but a bit better.
....but now we have ACES!...
And hdr and 8k...
And more log curves with plenty of luts to cope with...

Well, in fairness, there have always been cameras between the entry level and the cinema-grade cameras. The Panasonic HVX series and Canon’s prosumer line that I’m forgetting the name of come to mind. And they did a few things better than the Reds or the DSLRs, just as BM does now. But as much as things seem to have changed, they’ve all gotten better, and Reds position in the market has stayed pretty consistent.

What drives me crazy about Red’s cameras is the audio. It seems that every generation has worse audio inputs and less-satisfactory solutions for shoots that have no room for an audio recordist. That’s got to be a huge segment of Res’s market.
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