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Author Topic: Candid?  (Read 1397 times)

GreggP

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Candid?
« on: May 28, 2018, 03:17:38 pm »

Here are a couple photos I shot while trying to do a little street photography. I was told a true street photograph should be candid. The subject of your photo shouldn't know they are being photographed. In both of these images, they knew they were being photographed as I had the camera held up to my face while I was looking through my viewfinder.

The subjects of the first photo just gave me a nice smile-


Happy Together by Gregg Plummer, on Flickr

The subject of the second struck a pose (I promise, I didn't ask him to do that!)-


Peace by Gregg Plummer, on Flickr

Sometimes, I'll shoot from my hip or while using a wide angle lens, make it look like I'm shooting something else nearby. I've tried chimping, but don't think it's too convincing with my Canon 5DMIII. Maybe it would work better with a smaller camera. If I used a smartphone, i could always fake a selfie. What's your favorite technique?

RSL

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 03:21:22 pm »

Both are good shots, Gregg. Are you doing your post-processing on a calibrated monitor? Your pictures are coming up pretty dark and subdued on mine.

GreggP

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 03:30:46 pm »

No, these were post-processed using Lightroom a couple years ago when I had an old uncalibrated Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24" 1920x1200 LCD monitor. I was using the Windows 7 color calibration utility and I think most of my photos were still coming up dark. I'm saving up for a ViewSonic VP2785-4K 27" IPS Monitor and will probably buy Spyder5PRO at the same time. I now use a new 17" 4K gaming laptop which is supposed to be able to display 98% Adobe RGB but it's still not calibrated.

RSL

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 03:53:44 pm »

Okay. I hope it works out well. Your photography is good. It deserves good PP.

OmerV

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 04:00:43 pm »

The OP GreggP wrote "The subject of your photo shouldn't know they are being photographed."

Boy, I hope you are kidding because it is nonsense. In fact, one of the most iconic of Robert Frank's photos, the cover picture to The Americans has almost every person in the photo looking straight at the photographer.
https://www.lensculture.com/articles/robert-frank-the-americans#slideshow

And perhaps my favorite Henri Cartier-Bresson photo has every person therein looking into the camera.
http://www.danzigergallery.com/exhibition/the-heart-and-the-eye

Thank God younger photographers don't pay attention to rules (and neither should we.)

Sorry for the rant, but rules in art are tantamount to censorship.

Nice pictures by the way.

RSL

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 04:26:43 pm »

There's a big difference between a subject noticing you're photographing him, and posing the subject, Omer. That's the main bitch about Doisneau as a street photographer. He posed a lot of his stuff and then pretended he didn't. The classic is Le baiser de l'htel de ville. The actors he hired for that shot discovered how much money he was making on it and sued (unsuccessfully) to be paid more. With the lawsuit the cat was out of the bag.

In your first example there's no reason to believe the people behind that flag realized Frank actually was shooting a picture. The guy on the right can't even see through the flag. In the second, HCB definitely posed those prostitutes. So what? He never claimed he didn't.

Bottom line: It depends on what you're after. Gregg's cute, giggly girls know they're being photographed, and the result is a picture of some giggly girls cracking up at being photographed. In the second shot we can see clearly that the guy knows he's being shot. So what?

Yes, most really good street shots are made without disturbing the scene. That's a different kind of thing from what Gregg's doing here.

OmerV

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 06:12:28 pm »

There's a big difference between a subject noticing you're photographing him, and posing the subject, Omer. That's the main bitch about Doisneau as a street photographer. He posed a lot of his stuff and then pretended he didn't. The classic is Le baiser de l'htel de ville. The actors he hired for that shot discovered how much money he was making on it and sued (unsuccessfully) to be paid more. With the lawsuit the cat was out of the bag.

In your first example there's no reason to believe the people behind that flag realized Frank actually was shooting a picture. The guy on the right can't even see through the flag. In the second, HCB definitely posed those prostitutes. So what? He never claimed he didn't.

Bottom line: It depends on what you're after. Gregg's cute, giggly girls know they're being photographed, and the result is a picture of some giggly girls cracking up at being photographed. In the second shot we can see clearly that the guy knows he's being shot. So what?

Yes, most really good street shots are made without disturbing the scene. That's a different kind of thing from what Gregg's doing here.

The lensculture link starts as a slide show with the flag pic, but the one I refer to is the second picture, one you should know well. It is on the cover of The Americans, as I said in my initial comment.

I didnt say anything about posing, though Im not opposed to it in street work. Dont challenge me on this, it is a locked disagreement that I wont open and a waste of your time.

As for the HC-B pic, can you give me a link to where he, or someone (not you) who is an expert on HC-B, claims the women were posed? Id appreciate that.

Photographers find their own way of working, and the proof is as they say. If someone wants to do street work, theyll find a method that suits them.

RSL

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 07:55:39 pm »

As for the HC-B pic, can you give me a link to where he, or someone (not you) who is an expert on HC-B, claims the women were posed? Id appreciate that.

Hi Omer, I read about this shot again quite recently but I don't remember where at the moment. I'll do my best to dig out the reference.

RSL

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 08:33:06 am »

Hi Omer, No luck. I get a weekly email from Magnum Photos that contains some current stuff and a bunch of historical stuff. I save the emails and I thought it might have been in one of them. I went back a full year in the emails and didn't find what I was looking for. Now I'm wondering if it was in a magazine or newspaper that's been tossed. I haven't given up, but the odds are lengthening. One thing I'm going to do when I get some time is look up the title of the picture in one of my HCB books and then do some Googling.

Oh, and the picture of the bus on the cover of The Americans. What was the point you were trying to make about that one? That the people were looking at the photographer? So what? That doesn't make it any less a street shot. The people in the bus couldn't do anything about Frank shooting the picture, and he got some priceless expressions, making that one of his most famous shots.

OmerV

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 09:27:45 am »

Hi Omer, No luck. I get a weekly email from Magnum Photos that contains some current stuff and a bunch of historical stuff. I save the emails and I thought it might have been in one of them. I went back a full year in the emails and didn't find what I was looking for. Now I'm wondering if it was in a magazine or newspaper that's been tossed. I haven't given up, but the odds are lengthening. One thing I'm going to do when I get some time is look up the title of the picture in one of my HCB books and then do some Googling.

Oh, and the picture of the bus on the cover of The Americans. What was the point you were trying to make about that one? That the people were looking at the photographer? So what? That doesn't make it any less a street shot. The people in the bus couldn't do anything about Frank shooting the picture, and he got some priceless expressions, making that one of his most famous shots.

Hmm. Russ, we seem to be on a different wavelengths, or something. Your So what? is what I suggested to Gregg.

I found this:

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/10/street-photography-composition-lesson-3-diagonals/

Eric Kim thinks the pic was posed but he bases that on the other pictures of the transgender-women that were obviously posed. If the pic with the razor was posed, which Im not convince of, then old Henri should have tried his hand at movie making.

elliot_n

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2018, 09:44:15 am »

I could never make much sense of that picture. What is going on?
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RSL

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 10:08:53 am »

Hmm. Russ, we seem to be on a different wavelengths, or something. Your So what? is what I suggested to Gregg.

I found this:

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/10/street-photography-composition-lesson-3-diagonals/

Eric Kim thinks the pic was posed but he bases that on the other pictures of the transgender-women that were obviously posed. If the pic with the razor was posed, which Im not convince of, then old Henri should have tried his hand at movie making.

Hi Omer, well, Henri did try his hand at movie-making: (http://www.henricartierbresson.org/en/hcb/filmography/). He tried it first with Jean Renoir. In fact he played a part in one of Renoir's movies. I can't find the web picture of him in that movie I'm looking for, but I know it's also in one of the books on his life.

But here's the bottom line on Henri's Valencia prostitutes: He shot a whole series in the brothel where he shot the one to which you referred. At one point, running through Google results, I found a page with a series of those. I've now lost the page, but most of them are in later books about Henri. Check, for instance, Henri Cartier-Bresson: The Man, The Image & The World. But taken together it's quite clear that he was posing these people -- as you mentioned, evidently not all women.

And here's a quite interesting thing I ran across when I was looking: https://schirgwin.wordpress.com/2017/04/14/assignment-4-revised-after-feedback-from-my-tutor/.

Rob C

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 10:18:37 am »

Hmm. Russ, we seem to be on a different wavelengths, or something. Your So what? is what I suggested to Gregg.

I found this:

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/10/street-photography-composition-lesson-3-diagonals/

Eric Kim thinks the pic was posed but he bases that on the other pictures of the transgender-women that were obviously posed. If the pic with the razor was posed, which Im not convince of, then old Henri should have tried his hand at movie making.

Omer, why are you listening to Kim?

GreggP

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 10:36:31 am »

This one is posed. She caught me trying to take a candid shot and engaged me in a friendly way, then offered this pose.


Tommie Marie by Gregg Plummer, on Flickr

I've had this happen quite a few times.

Rob C

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 10:40:51 am »

This one didn't see me; I bet all she saw was her hair getting messed up.

So yeah, candid.

RSL

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 10:53:09 am »

This one is posed. She caught me trying to take a candid shot and engaged me in a friendly way, then offered this pose.

I've had this happen quite a few times.

I've had it happen plenty of times too. So what? (I see you lurking there in the background, Omer). You either end up with a good picture or you don't. Then the question is whether or not what you just shot has interest beyond your own interest because you shot it. That's a judgment that requires some familiarity with the world of street photography. It also explains why we see so much crap posted as street photography. We even see it in books like The World Atlas of Street Photography.

OmerV

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 11:18:24 am »

This one is posed. She caught me trying to take a candid shot and engaged me in a friendly way, then offered this pose.


Tommie Marie by Gregg Plummer, on Flickr

I've had this happen quite a few times.

If you are beginning to walk the street, take all the pictures you want and more. At some point you will either decide to be more attentive to what moves you, or youll toss the camera in a river. Just make sure youre not hooked to the strap.   :D

JNB_Rare

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 10:51:34 pm »

This one is posed. She caught me trying to take a candid shot and engaged me in a friendly way, then offered this pose.

Though I do appreciate good street/candid photography, taking pictures of strangers is something I've never done, unless they were practically beggin' for it;)

The Saucy Groom.
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Two23

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 11:02:43 pm »

This one is posed. She caught me trying to take a candid shot and engaged me in a friendly way, then offered this pose.



Best shot yet.  I think you're making progress here. :)


Kent in SD
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Qui sedes ad dexteram Patris,
miserere nobis.

Rob C

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Re: Candid?
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 04:44:13 am »

Though I do appreciate good street/candid photography, taking pictures of strangers is something I've never done, unless they were practically beggin' for it;)

The Saucy Groom.

I guess they deserve each other? It's bound to last for ever.

;-)
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