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Author Topic: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)  (Read 2104 times)

pschefz

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUTT4LA5hs
simple demonstration of a brilliant solution hasselblad has had for years and nobody seems to be able to implement...or does not want to? there is nothing in the X1D specs (processor, weight size, wifi protocol, buffer,...) that puts it ahead of other cameras, so it must be a "simple" software solution? almost instant preview of raw files on iOs devices is such a great feature....hasselblad has it and nobody else can come up with a simple and real working jpeg over wifi solution....
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BobShaw

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 09:28:18 PM »

Just to clarify, in my limited experience (less than a week) with the X1D it does not do wifi tethering, at least to Phocus running on a computer so that you can do real work on the files and save them as FFF. You need to use USB for that.

You can however connect by wifi to an iOS device running Phocus Mobile and that is great, but you are limited to basic camera control and shooting. So you can change the exposure and take a shot basically.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 09:52:43 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUTT4LA5hs
simple demonstration of a brilliant solution hasselblad has had for years and nobody seems to be able to implement... hasselblad has it and nobody else can come up with a simple and real working jpeg over wifi solution....

Errr... Phase One's lineup has had this feature for 5 years and Leaf (now part of Team Phase One) had it 14 years ago!

This functionality has been in the Phase One line up (IQ2 and IQ3 series) since it shipped the IQ2 series June 2013. As a bonus it provides (optional) native https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIgzpKc7Mds using the GPS polling from the iOS device.

If you want to go back in time further the Leaf Valeo 17wi and Leaf Valeo 22wi had built-in bluetooth based wireless which provided much of the same functionality. This was in 2004, so it was only on an HP iPaq (not iPad; just spelled similarly) and the speed and overall responsiveness was nowhere close to what we have today with the iOS solution on the Phase One IQ2/IQ3, but you have to give them credit for having this 14 years ago!

Neither Capture Pilot, nor the X1D solution (or the Leaf solution before it) are really "tethering wirelessly" so much as they are allowing someone on an iOS device to "dial in" to the images stored/hosted on the camera. Still very powerful, but more of a supplement than a replacement for tethering in traditional tethering situations. In situations where tethering is impractical it provides some (but not all) of the workflow/features of tethering.

The simple answer to why you don't see this on every kind of camera is that you need a native (integrated directly into the camera) solution for wifi to work really well. To do a native built-in end-to-end wifi solution you need a camera company that is obsessively good with both hardware and software. Most (nearly all?) camera companies are simply awful at software and don't invest in software because it's not a direct revenue generator for them. Phase One has a very large and talented software team, funded by small-format camera users paying for Capture One Pro.

See also: https://dtdch.com/phase-one-iq250-11-things-to-know/
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:18:17 PM by Doug Peterson »
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BobShaw

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 11:09:18 PM »

This functionality has been in the Phase One line up (IQ2 and IQ3 series) since it shipped the IQ2 series June 2013.
Possibly. I was also able to do wifi tethering on my Canon 5D2 with the WFT grip in 2009 and no doubt you could do it with the canon 6D and many others.

I guess the difference is that the IQ3 in Australia costs $49,990 and I bought the X1D for $7600. Perhaps the Phase One should come with a medium size family car to carry it in? (:-)
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landscapephoto

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 02:36:46 AM »

Just to clarify, in my limited experience (less than a week) with the X1D it does not do wifi tethering, at least to Phocus running on a computer so that you can do real work on the files and save them as FFF. You need to use USB for that.

You can however connect by wifi to an iOS device running Phocus Mobile and that is great, but you are limited to basic camera control and shooting. So you can change the exposure and take a shot basically.

I thought one could examine the pictures at 1:1 to check focus, etc... Is that correct or not?
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 10:42:04 AM »

Possibly. I was also able to do wifi tethering on my Canon 5D2 with the WFT grip in 2009 and no doubt you could do it with the canon 6D and many others.

I guess the difference is that the IQ3 in Australia costs $49,990 and I bought the X1D for $7600. Perhaps the Phase One should come with a medium size family car to carry it in? (:-)


Not "possibly" Bob, factually.

 ;)

And an IQ3 50 costs $21,990, not $49,990. An IQ1 50 full kit with XF Camera and Schneider 80mm Blue Ring Lens costs $14,990. To be sure, there is still a price difference, but it is not anywhere near as dramatic as you stated.


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BobShaw

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 06:12:59 PM »

And an IQ3 50 costs $21,990, not $49,990. An IQ1 50 full kit with XF Camera and Schneider 80mm Blue Ring Lens costs $14,990. To be sure, there is still a price difference, but it is not anywhere near as dramatic as you stated.
Steve Hendrix/CI
Source and in Australian dollars with a body including tax?
AFAIK the IQ1 does not have either live view or Wifi.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 11:07:15 PM »

Source and in Australian dollars with a body including tax?
AFAIK the IQ1 does not have either live view or Wifi.

IQ1 50mp pricing in USD. No idea about Australian; you'd have to contact your local dealer there.

IQ1 50mp does have live view, but you are correct that it does not have wireless. The IQ2 and IQ3 series have wireless; the IQ1 series does not.

Refurb IQ2 50mp, Certified Pre-Owned IQ3 50mp also provide options below the IQ3 50mp new price.

The main point is that Phase One's offerings (including offerings that have wifi) are not remotely limited to a $50k price point.

BobShaw

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2018, 01:23:25 AM »

IQ1 50mp pricing in USD. No idea about Australian; you'd have to contact your local dealer there.
This post is about wifi so if a camera doesn't have wifi then it is not really in discussion.
I rang the listed distributor and asked the price of an IQ3 50MP. With a lens the IQ3 50MP is $39,765AU. Without a lens somewhere over $30,000
They have come down from the article I was reading in May. EOFY specials and no doubt other factors.

X1D on the other hand retail new at dealers for $9990. So only $20,000 difference. Yay!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 02:08:51 AM by BobShaw »
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2018, 01:06:23 PM »

This post is about wifi so if a camera doesn't have wifi then it is not really in discussion.
I rang the listed distributor and asked the price of an IQ3 50MP. With a lens the IQ3 50MP is $39,765AU. Without a lens somewhere over $30,000
They have come down from the article I was reading in May. EOFY specials and no doubt other factors.

X1D on the other hand retail new at dealers for $9990. So only $20,000 difference. Yay!


I would recommend drug testing your distributor.


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Steve Goldsmith

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2018, 11:26:39 PM »

Just to bring this post back on topic, a Hasselblad Feature.

Hasselblad intoduced in camera wifi and control in 2014 with the release of the H5D-50c wifi.
WiFi has been a feature of every digital system that has been produced since that time with no "upcharge" to end users.

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BobShaw

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2018, 03:17:59 AM »

I would recommend drug testing your distributor.
Steve Hendrix/CI
Ha ha. Probably worth considering as the last Phase One dealer went broke after 30 plus years in the camera business.

Actually it may surprise you to know that there are a whole pile of other place in the world that don't play in the World Series.
We call these places  "other countries".
These other countries actually have there own laws, markets, constitutions (though nobody ever reads them) and in fact currencies (though most have not used money made from paper in a long time).

One of these currencies is the Australian dollar. If we were to look at your quoted price of $21,990US then that is actually at current exchange rate $30,123 Australian. Add the 10% tax and that becomes $33,135 Australian. That does not include import charges. So the camera being sold at around $30,000 is actually cheaper in Australia than it would be if we were to buy it in the US and ship it back. The same is actually true of printer cartridges and a lot of other things that we used to buy from the US, which is a big change from a few years ago.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 04:45:15 AM by BobShaw »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2018, 08:56:18 AM »

Hasselblad intoduced in camera wifi and control in 2014 with the release of the H5D-50c wifi.

Steve, I'm actually in the midst of writing a history of medium format. My recollection is that Hasselblad's wifi was announced in 2014 but didn't ship to end users (with wifi enabled) until Feb 2015. Is that right? Do you mind if I contact you offline to get confirmations of a few other ship dates?

Steve Hendrix

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2018, 11:26:46 AM »

Ha ha. Probably worth considering as the last Phase One dealer went broke after 30 plus years in the camera business.

Actually it may surprise you to know that there are a whole pile of other place in the world that don't play in the World Series.
We call these places  "other countries".
These other countries actually have there own laws, markets, constitutions (though nobody ever reads them) and in fact currencies (though most have not used money made from paper in a long time).

One of these currencies is the Australian dollar. If we were to look at your quoted price of $21,990US then that is actually at current exchange rate $30,123 Australian. Add the 10% tax and that becomes $33,135 Australian. That does not include import charges. So the camera being sold at around $30,000 is actually cheaper in Australia than it would be if we were to buy it in the US and ship it back. The same is actually true of printer cartridges and a lot of other things that we used to buy from the US, which is a big change from a few years ago.


Bob, other currencies?  :)

Sorry, I knew you were in Australia, but thought you were using USD as the comparison, missed that. And your math is about right anyway, in terms of ratio, the Phase One or Hasselblad 50mp digital back solutions are 2x - 3x higher than the same sensor in the Fuji/Hasselblad mirrorless systems. It is the way it is for now.

And actually, if all distributors/dealers were drug tested, I suspect I know what the results would be. It can be a wild and bumpy ride. Not for the timid!


Steve Hendrix/CI
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 11:31:28 AM by Steve Hendrix »
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Bo_Dez

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2018, 12:12:51 PM »

How is it that every thread about Hasselblad and Fuji needs to be spammed by Phase One reps?

Are there any Hasselblad or Fuji reps even here? I guess they are busy selling cameras.
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landscapephoto

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 01:50:24 PM »

Are there any Hasselblad or Fuji reps even here?

Look at message #10 in this thread.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2018, 01:58:09 PM »

How is it that every thread about Hasselblad and Fuji needs to be spammed by Phase One reps?

Are there any Hasselblad or Fuji reps even here? I guess they are busy selling cameras.


Can you show me where I have spammed other Hasselblad/Fuji threads? Please do.

And I take exception to my participation being referred to as "spam". In general, I will provide factual information where I see inaccurate information posted about the products I am familiar with. No Phase One rep brought up Phase One, a Hasselblad user did and provided inaccurate information when doing so.


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pschefz

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2018, 01:49:09 PM »

Errr... Phase One's lineup has had this feature for 5 years and Leaf (now part of Team Phase One) had it 14 years ago!

This functionality has been in the Phase One line up (IQ2 and IQ3 series) since it shipped the IQ2 series June 2013. As a bonus it provides (optional) native https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIgzpKc7Mds using the GPS polling from the iOS device.

If you want to go back in time further the Leaf Valeo 17wi and Leaf Valeo 22wi had built-in bluetooth based wireless which provided much of the same functionality. This was in 2004, so it was only on an HP iPaq (not iPad; just spelled similarly) and the speed and overall responsiveness was nowhere close to what we have today with the iOS solution on the Phase One IQ2/IQ3, but you have to give them credit for having this 14 years ago!

Neither Capture Pilot, nor the X1D solution (or the Leaf solution before it) are really "tethering wirelessly" so much as they are allowing someone on an iOS device to "dial in" to the images stored/hosted on the camera. Still very powerful, but more of a supplement than a replacement for tethering in traditional tethering situations. In situations where tethering is impractical it provides some (but not all) of the workflow/features of tethering.

The simple answer to why you don't see this on every kind of camera is that you need a native (integrated directly into the camera) solution for wifi to work really well. To do a native built-in end-to-end wifi solution you need a camera company that is obsessively good with both hardware and software. Most (nearly all?) camera companies are simply awful at software and don't invest in software because it's not a direct revenue generator for them. Phase One has a very large and talented software team, funded by small-format camera users paying for Capture One Pro.

See also: https://dtdch.com/phase-one-iq250-11-things-to-know/

i remember the leaf vale well, i had that combo with the ipaq...

and this is not about getting all files wirelessly onto a laptop or tablet....with file sizes getting bigger and bigger i dont really see a good solution for that coming soon anyway, regardless of how fast wifi speeds are getting...

the solution that hasselblad (and leaf and i guess phase) were and are offering is a way to hand somebody a tablet (more or less a large display) and being able to see all shots as they are taken....not 10 sec behind and not a real wireless transmission.....but still a way to zoom in quickly (without bringing everything to a grinding stop) and to quickly mark favorites.....

to me all the wifi implementations sony, nikon, canon, fuji are offering are more or less useless and the better the cameras, the more useless it gets....this is not about wirelessly transferring a 40 or 50 pix raw file......this is about having the option to see the same preview (available on the rear lcd) on a tablet.....hasselblad (and i guess phase) can do it....

but i guess judging from some comments made here, people aren't even aware of this option and always consider wifi tether a full transfer....
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2018, 05:30:16 PM »

i remember the leaf vale well, i had that combo with the ipaq...

and this is not about getting all files wirelessly onto a laptop or tablet....with file sizes getting bigger and bigger i dont really see a good solution for that coming soon anyway, regardless of how fast wifi speeds are getting...

the solution that hasselblad (and leaf and i guess phase) were and are offering is a way to hand somebody a tablet (more or less a large display) and being able to see all shots as they are taken....not 10 sec behind and not a real wireless transmission.....but still a way to zoom in quickly (without bringing everything to a grinding stop) and to quickly mark favorites.....

to me all the wifi implementations sony, nikon, canon, fuji are offering are more or less useless and the better the cameras, the more useless it gets....this is not about wirelessly transferring a 40 or 50 pix raw file......this is about having the option to see the same preview (available on the rear lcd) on a tablet.....hasselblad (and i guess phase) can do it....

but i guess judging from some comments made here, people aren't even aware of this option and always consider wifi tether a full transfer....


Paul, you don't have to guess that Phase One has a great tablet handing solution, it's a fact. They do. Works very similarly to Hasselblad's implementation and was working that way before Hasselblad had anything approaching the same built-in capability.


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BobShaw

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Re: wifi tethering the one thing the X1D has i wish the GFX had:)
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2018, 07:17:51 PM »

Paul, you don't have to guess that Phase One has a great tablet handing solution, it's a fact. They do.

Let us all accept that Phase One has a great wifi tablet solution and move on.
Now if the discussion had anything to do with Phase One that would be useful, however it was a comparison of the Hasselblad X1D and the Fuji GFX. Why? Well possibly because they are in the same category of medium format mirrorless cameras. That is also a fact. They are popular because they are about one third the size, weight and price of the Phase One.

Perhaps someone can start a thread on "Why are Phase One Cameras so big, heavy and expensive?" (:-)
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