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Author Topic: Fashion Film; RIP Stills?  (Read 2364 times)

fredjeang2

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Re: Fashion Film; Stills from moving pictures?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2018, 04:03:27 PM »

I think this conversation has moved and what isn’t being considered is the client’s viewpoint. 

I know three people very well that are in the apparel business.  One a CEO, the other the chairman of the board, the third a Couture.

I can tell you, talking to these three people, the only thing you hear is “retail is difficult” no matter what side your own, off the rack or bespoke.

And, it’s not just apparel, it’s all retail.  I was in an apple store the other night, buying drives (I’m always buying drives) and the customer next to me was lining up portable ssd’s and looking online to see the best price he could get.

Once he did his research, he walked out, so I guess he found a better price online.  Now Apple doesn’t need the money, but their sales have also taken a drop.   People just won’t buy the newest I-phone because it’s out.

As Rob observed, fashion publications and high priced brand’s photography have also taken a big hit, more every year.    I was having my hair done and while waiting I went through every single page of what I think was the latest US Elle magazine.

Thick book, full of ads but doing a count there was only two editorial’s that was shot on a location, 98% were shot on either colored backdrops or stripped into them.    The two with locations were of the “free kind” like standing in a street or on a lobby construction site.    Not the old Peter Lindberg in the south of Europe with Kate Blanchett and Bradley Cooper. 

The advertising was all on simple backdrops, except one for shoes that was in some hotel room.   

But from the designer’s/maker’s standpoint, they don’t have the budget and their newer creative’s that are the decision makers didn’t get into the industry until the recession.  In other words they have never been on a shoot that requires props, locations, even medium sized crews.   It’s the old form of catch 22.    They don’t make the marketing enticing, so the sales suffer, which means they cut back on the marketing budget. 

Rob mentioned websites and unlike Rob I have no problem reading or viewing a magazine electronically.   It’s fine as long as the content is strong.   Rob mentioned Chanel and they did spend some money but all on their fashion shows in major markets, hence most of the imagery was of the fashion shows, in still and motion, though the motion imagery is more visceral   https://www.chanel.com/en_US/

It’s not that the sky is falling, it’s that you have to learn different skills and how to direct the whole process.  Drag man, but this business has never been easy.

Now Rob, I know, you know if you really wanted that sweater campaign, it takes more than saying you want it.  Get some sweaters, do a test, build a purposely designed web promo and go after it.

Yes, it takes investment and yes it’s no fun “testing/presenting” for free, but until they see what you can do, what you will do and who you are, the chances of them finding you on your roma site are almost impossible.

IMO

BC

James, Rob, I think you both make good points but each from different business and timeline perspectives.

Lindberg is a bit of a case apart because he's got a big name and a rare survivor of the giants who
made fashion photography, a bit like if we'd still have a Balenciaga or a Picasso alive and active nowdays.
So he does what he wants, regardless of what history requires because he is part of History.
This kind of freedom is so extremely hard to gain that very few in the world can enjoy.
So he is loath to fit in ADs and agencie business, imposes some conditions for the editos like an emperator, such as "no retouching whatsoever".
Not even Testino that I know has this power. But did Peter have to drop out certain amount of incomes as the price to
pay for insubordination? Not everybody is willing to exchange fame and wealth for freedom. Some paid hard price for having tried.

In a way Rob prones a glimpse of Lindberg's freedom and it may works if goals are setted accordingly.
Just make a decent living is doable. No hassles but not that much chance of glory either. And after all, who cares?
"It's my way" may easily become the way-out because "my way" implicitly means to be enpowered by some sort
of authority and prestige.
Then the client does not come-in to deal its requirements but because they match those of the artist. Big difference.

On the other hand, can someone reasonably obtain freedom without being rebel; but a subtle double game
between fawning on the industry -because cash is needed- and sending it to hell at the same time -because after all cash is not the only thing that matters-?
This is where the Sex Pistols or the Who excelled. They were products of their business industry, but this latest
could not control them either.

"being oneself" regardless of what's up out there.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 05:35:57 PM by fredjeang2 »
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Rob C

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Re: Fashion Film; Stills from moving pictures?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2018, 05:38:03 PM »

James, Rob, I think you both make good points but each from different business and timeline perspectives.

Lindberg is a bit of a case apart because he's got a big name and a rare survivor of the giants who
made fashion photography, a bit like if we'd still have a Balenciaga or a Picasso alive and active nowdays.
So he does what he wants, regardless of what history requires.
This kind of freedom is so extremely hard to gain that very few in the world enjoy.
So he is loath to fit in ADs and agencie business, imposes some conditions for the editos as an emperator, such as "no retouching whatsoever".
Not even Testino that I know has this power. But did Peter have to drop out certain amount of incomes as the price to
pay for insubordination? Not everybody is willing to exchange fame and wealth for freedom.

In a way Rob prones a glimpse of Lindberg's freedom and it may works if goals are setted accordingly.
Just make a decent living is doable. No hassles but not much chance of glory.
"It's my way" may easily become the way-out because "my way" implicitly means to be enpowered by some sort
of authority and prestige.
Then the client does not come-in to deal its requirements but because they match those of the artist. Big difference.

On the other hand, can someone reasonably gain this sort of freedom without being rebel; playing a subtle double game
between fawning on the industry and screwing it off at the same time?
This is where the Sex Pistols or the Who excelled. They are products of their business industry, but this latest
could not control them.

 "be yourself" regardless of what's up out there.

How things change: as far as I know, Testino has been "suspended" by Condé Nast along with Bruce Weber because of noises about sex; the music industry itself has been turned on its head because of the Internet.

Many of the music legends of recent years have died, and so have some photographic stars.

There's a big difference between loving fame and loving your art. The two can go together, but then you have to have the personality that allows you to survive fame. And also to make it work for you, but perhaps agents are better at doing that on your behalf; however, you don't seem to get a good agent unless you are already a made man, as it were.

I have thought about fame quite a lot; that's easy to do when it's just mostly theoretical for you, and you get stuck at local hero. I have also suspected that had it come in any massive way that it could have ripped my life apart domestically. That was a price I would hate to pay for anything.

Anyway, I discovered that some of the things that did happen, that I imagined would be wonderful, turned out to be hell on Earth.

I suppose my best defence was that I have never been money-driven to the extent that it became numero uno in my life. Sure, I enjoyed good years, but they were tempered by lousy ones, too. I didn't think we were going to starve or not be able to "pay the light bills", as Leiter was fond of saying in interviews, yet at the same time I always had the feeling of skating on very thin ice.

Maybe that's just the nature of self-employment. However, there were a couple of fairly successful large studios in Glasgow during the time up to the 80s/90s, and I think I outlived them all. Which I suppose means that travelling light makes you more flexible when things go slow.

fredjeang2

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Re: Fashion Film; Stills from moving pictures?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2018, 06:42:24 PM »

How things change: as far as I know, Testino has been "suspended" by Condé Nast along with Bruce Weber because of noises about sex; the music industry itself has been turned on its head because of the Internet.

Many of the music legends of recent years have died, and so have some photographic stars.

There's a big difference between loving fame and loving your art. The two can go together, but then you have to have the personality that allows you to survive fame. And also to make it work for you, but perhaps agents are better at doing that on your behalf; however, you don't seem to get a good agent unless you are already a made man, as it were.

I have thought about fame quite a lot; that's easy to do when it's just mostly theoretical for you, and you get stuck at local hero. I have also suspected that had it come in any massive way that it could have ripped my life apart domestically. That was a price I would hate to pay for anything.

Anyway, I discovered that some of the things that did happen, that I imagined would be wonderful, turned out to be hell on Earth.

I suppose my best defence was that I have never been money-driven to the extent that it became numero uno in my life. Sure, I enjoyed good years, but they were tempered by lousy ones, too. I didn't think we were going to starve or not be able to "pay the light bills", as Leiter was fond of saying in interviews, yet at the same time I always had the feeling of skating on very thin ice.

Maybe that's just the nature of self-employment. However, there were a couple of fairly successful large studios in Glasgow during the time up to the 80s/90s, and I think I outlived them all. Which I suppose means that travelling light makes you more flexible when things go slow.
Many years ago I had an affair with a needlewoman from the Courrèges House, at that time a Haute Couture brand (now it's closed).
As a glimpse of the future, she had been in charged of the Courrèges boutique in Madrid, the city I was to live years later, before she was destined to the mother house in Paris, where I met her.
In her appartement, she had an entire closet full of defective clothes from the brand that were refused and the staff members could get some specimen for free when the designer was in a happy day.
I asked her to show me the defects: "here and there...can't you see? it's clearly visible". I was seeing nothing. She had to train my eyes until I could see, and beleive me, it was really hard to notice even with a loupe. But those where looking for absolute perfection. It was the bespoke haute couture. I was amazed by such a perfectionism, after all each peices costed a fortune and it was all hand made by the bests artisans of Paris. But still, who would ever noticed? Certainly not the boys at the Longchamps hippodrome grand prix, too busy with their binoculars. A party at the Elysée? Nope. It's full of spys (spies?), politicians and corporate barons who prefer, like me, looking directly at cleavages before at stitching marks. So in the end, what this quest for absolute perfection is about? And for who is it?
Cinderella aged, she can't wear perfection any longuer because it's gone. Time kills everything quickly, very specially in fashion because fashion is vaporous.
A mere phylosophy I guess. A counterpoint to human unperfection, an ideal that can not be reached. The house closed. He was a good designer but a poor business man.

So yeah, I guess it's about enjoying life.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 06:57:00 PM by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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Re: Fashion Film; Stills from moving pictures?
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »

Hi BC,

First off, I do hope you understood that I wasn't being serious about getting that knitwear work! I have been out of the loop so long that I don't know any of the models anymore, nor even the companies left in business.

One of my best fashion ones used to send me off twice a year to wherever I though was good within their budget, and we'd shoot their spring/summer and autumn/winter ranges. Well, even they came up against the realities of international competition. Turned out that having the knitwear produced in Scotland was too expensive, so they went to Hong Kong to try production there. I wondered why the time for the seasonal shoot has passed without a word, and then the guy came to me with a pile of negatives that he'd had a Hong Kong photographer shoot of their clothes, using the owner's secretary as model!

He was embarrassed, but asked me if I would print a run of them for press hand-outs, which I did, and the next thing I discovered was that they had given up the fight: no way they could keep going. And this was way back in the 70s, so the rot had already begun. But at least I got paid.

"Testing/presenting for free".

I had no problem with that: it was how I got my first really huge calendar contract.

I'd gone to this client's office to discuss a shoot set up by a PR man I'd known when we both worked in the engineering industry, and the first thing I noticed was a Pirelli calendar up on the guy's wall.

After the meeting, I discussed the Pirelli with the PR guy in his car, and he told me that his client was not anywhere near ready to engage in that sort of calendar for his company. Needless to say, a couple of weeks after that I was back in the client's office with a mock-up calendar. He asked me to get a quotation for producing it, the names tailored to each of the forty-two companies within his group. I did that, and to my astonishment, I got the job, which lasted long enough to produce six or seven more years of these huge runs. From being the UK's largest plant-hire and sales suppliers to civil engineering (cranes, excavators etc.), they also vanished, broken down, sold off to a Canadian firm and then God alone knows what else in turn. It is indeed rough out there.

BC, my dream today would be to get handed a box of pretty non-clothes, my model of choice, and the budget to wander off again somewhere and shoot whatever turned us both on. And not a monitor in sight, not even a Polaroid! And no, it doesn't have to be super-expensive at all. It's the additional people that aren't really needed that inflate budgets and kill 'em off. It's how I used to do it, so if it was possible then it should be possible today, too. Things are supposed to have improved! ;-)

But there is another factor working within all of this: I never, ever, wanted to grow into anything more than a one-man band. I just wanted to be able to provide a decent standard of living for my family, and enjoy the ride. That itself is hard to do: there is a kind of momentum that can set in, where you might need more hands than you have, and so the temptation is to stretch and grow, and then you have to keep on growing just to find the work to find the money to pay those addtional pairs of hands you had to take on board. (My favourite restaurant here, run by a French guy, faces that dilemma every year.) No thanks! I never wanted to go to bed at night just to worry about tomorrow.

Rob
Never too late Rob: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAA5bFolg-w
Carmen would certainly not contradic it.

Curious, there is ballet scene reminding me a Coot photo.
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Rob C

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Re: Fashion Film; RIP Stills?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2018, 06:58:34 AM »

I wonder what she looks like... the surface works well enough!

Rob

fredjeang2

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Re: Fashion Film; RIP Stills?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2018, 05:49:07 PM »

I wonder what she looks like... the surface works well enough!

Rob
Sure not like BB when you shooted her. But what I find amazing is that, despite her age and despite the fact that she might have 100 layers of MU to mitigate, she has a class, a presence and a walking most young models could envy.
She would make a perfect Lindberg muse.
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Rob C

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Re: Fashion Film; RIP Stills?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2018, 11:16:26 AM »

Sure not like BB when you shooted her. But what I find amazing is that, despite her age and despite the fact that she might have 100 layers of MU to mitigate, she has a class, a presence and a walking most young models could envy.
She would make a perfect Lindberg muse.


Do you remember if he used her for an older Pirelli? I have a feeling they worked together, too.

Rob

fredjeang2

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Re: Fashion Film; RIP Stills?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2018, 07:29:26 PM »


Do you remember if he used her for an older Pirelli? I have a feeling they worked together, too.

Rob
Correct. https://www.santaeulalia.com/gb/inside-santa-eulalia/carmen-dell-orefice-la-modelo-que-sobrevivio-tres-decadas/
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Rob C

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Re: Fashion Film; RIP Stills?
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2018, 06:15:34 AM »

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