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Author Topic: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast  (Read 4683 times)

Frans Waterlander

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2018, 10:06:30 PM »

It would be nice if you put at least as much energy in helping to solve the issue here as you put into trying to put me down, but I'm not holding my breath.

And talking about assumptions: you assume I don't own an HP printer. I own an HP printer and you would have know that if you paid attention; I mentioned that in my posts. You also assumed that I didn't talk to Epson about this; I did before I posted here. I could comb through your posts in this thread and make a long list of all the assumptions you made and why each and every one of them is wrong.

A word of advice, Andrew: GROW UP!!!

Since you question my background, is it OK to question yours?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 10:15:18 PM by Frans Waterlander »
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2018, 10:15:43 PM »

It would be nice if you put at least as much energy in helping to solve the issue here as you put into trying to put me down, but I'm not holding my breath.
Energy well spent outing trolls. All the help you got here and in the other posts I provided were ignored. That is your (now well known) M.O. for posting every year or so.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2018, 12:33:21 AM »

Best if you've developed a dislike of someone is to limit replies.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2018, 01:38:41 AM »

Best if you've developed a dislike of someone is to limit replies.

How true, but so hard to do.
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Farmer

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2018, 01:44:45 AM »

Tell me, Frans, with the nozzle check pattern image that I posed, what would you have considered the issue to be (if you had any idea at all) assuming I hadn't told you what the problem was?  I don't believe you would have had any idea, but I knew straight away, and I was correct.  I'm sure there are things you know or can deduce that I can't, and some of them maybe I couldn't even learn how to do it, but I wouldn't assume such things were impossible just because I wasn't familiar with them.

I'm not guaranteeing that I could correctly diagnose your problem, but I am saying there are many things you can determine from nozzle check patterns.  I also told you twice that the printer you have doesn't have an ink level detection sensor.  It counts dots fired and subtracts from the original total and write a current total to the chip.  You've ignored being told that twice.

Again, I don't care if you believe me or not - really - it affects me not at all :-)  You, on the other hand, might get some useful advice on how to work out what's wrong with your printer if you care to listen.  If not, all good, but don't come here and tell me I can't do something just because you can't.
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Phil Brown

Frans Waterlander

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2018, 02:24:13 PM »

Tell me, Frans, with the nozzle check pattern image that I posed, what would you have considered the issue to be (if you had any idea at all) assuming I hadn't told you what the problem was?  I don't believe you would have had any idea, but I knew straight away, and I was correct.  I'm sure there are things you know or can deduce that I can't, and some of them maybe I couldn't even learn how to do it, but I wouldn't assume such things were impossible just because I wasn't familiar with them.

I'm not guaranteeing that I could correctly diagnose your problem, but I am saying there are many things you can determine from nozzle check patterns.  I also told you twice that the printer you have doesn't have an ink level detection sensor.  It counts dots fired and subtracts from the original total and write a current total to the chip.  You've ignored being told that twice.

Again, I don't care if you believe me or not - really - it affects me not at all :-)  You, on the other hand, might get some useful advice on how to work out what's wrong with your printer if you care to listen.  If not, all good, but don't come here and tell me I can't do something just because you can't.

Never experienced pigment separation in 30 years of working with inkjet printers, including 10 year working at the HP Vancouver inkjet printer division, never saw a nozzle check like the one you posted. If my printer ever behaved like that I would try to learn about it and ask help from experts like you.

Just because I'm not familiar with pigment separation doesn't therefor mean that I have no idea whether or not one can spot reduced ink output in a nozzle check print. I maintain that it is impossible to look at a nozzle check print and determine that the ink output is 10% less than "normal" or 20% less or 30% less, even more so if one doesn't have a "known good" nozzle check print to compare it to, as is my situation.

I'm well aware of how the ink monitor works, so forgive me for not reacting to your comments, twice.
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2018, 02:36:58 PM »

Never experienced pigment separation in 30 years of working with inkjet printers, including 10 year working at the HP Vancouver inkjet printer division, never saw a nozzle check like the one you posted. If my printer ever behaved like that I would try to learn about it and ask help from experts like you
As such, impossible.
If you've only imagined it, you've never experienced it.
Next we'll be told, the nozzle check Farmer experienced, kept, photographed and supplied is what, fake news and a witch hunt?
Try to learn? That hasn't been the case in these series of posts. Dismissing what actual experts tell you; yup that tactic is perfectly clear.
Quote
I'm well aware of how the ink monitor works, so forgive me for not reacting to your comments, twice.
Seems what you're aware of comes from searching the net, and without reference and rather recently despite being told what you read isn't correct:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=124550.msg1041536#msg1041536 :
Quote
Just read on another forum that the R2880 may have an unreliable cartridge ink level monitor in the sense that when the cartridge gets low, but still OK according to the monitor, ink supply may gradually decrease, causing color casts.My cyan cartridge is low, but according to the monitor not too low to use.
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2018, 03:34:24 PM »

Never experienced pigment separation in 30 years of working with inkjet printers, including 10 year working at the HP Vancouver inkjet printer division, never saw a nozzle check like the one you posted. If my printer ever behaved like that I would try to learn about it and ask help from experts like you.

Just because I'm not familiar with pigment separation doesn't therefor mean that I have no idea whether or not one can spot reduced ink output in a nozzle check print. I maintain that it is impossible to look at a nozzle check print and determine that the ink output is 10% less than "normal" or 20% less or 30% less, even more so if one doesn't have a "known good" nozzle check print to compare it to, as is my situation.

And yet in 15 years I've seen it many times.  Not everyone experiences the same things in a related field.  The thing with reduced ink output is that it's not like a tap that's had the flow reduced.  That's not how print heads work.  It means the print head is somehow starved of supply or receiving poor supply (separated, for example).  So, yes, you can spot from the nozzle pattern when it's not printing correctly (which, after all, is exactly what it's designed for).  You just need a loupe, an understanding of the ink path and of how the head works, and experience of what's correct and normal.  You complained earlier it was only 1mm wide, but with a loupe you're moving toward looking at the dot structure (usually you don't need quite that much magnification), and there's plenty of data to examine.

I'm well aware of how the ink monitor works, so forgive me for not reacting to your comments, twice.

Then why did you twice suggest otherwise?  Odd.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2018, 04:16:54 PM »



Then why did you twice suggest otherwise?  Odd.
It’s only odd Farmer, the first time or two you engage with this fellow under the false impression he wants help and that’s why he posts. Doesn’t take too long to get hip to his agenda in posting.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Frans Waterlander

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2018, 04:39:05 PM »

"Then why did you twice suggest otherwise?  Odd." Never did.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2018, 04:40:35 PM »

Received my cartridges, installed, color cast gone, both in color mode and ABW.
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2018, 04:45:09 PM »

Received my cartridges, installed, color cast gone, both in color mode and ABW.
peace and quiet at last!
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2018, 05:19:10 PM »

Frans,

It would be interesting to compare nozzle checks with those prior to replacing the cyan cartridge now that you have a good/bad reference.

Might be good to keep a set of known good nozzle prints for future reference. Especially if you can see a difference but either way it may be useful in the future.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2018, 06:03:50 PM »

So, what did I learn? That some people are nicer and more helpful than others. As if I didn't know! But seriously, the way I see it and after having looked at every possibility that I and others could come up with I am still not sure what caused the color shift other than it looks like not enough cyan ink was put down. Why that was the case, I'm still not sure. I see two most likely candidates, however unlikely they seem to be:
 A) The cyan cartridge was running on empty, as indicated by the ink monitor, and suddenly, after being fine for hundreds of prints, supplied less ink. If that is the case then the ink monitor may not handle all corner cases correctly.
 B) The cyan cartridge, after being fine for hundreds of prints, suddenly turned bad. What that bad may be, I don't know. It was certainly not clogged nozzles, deflected nozzles or pigment separation.
 Hate it if you don't know for sure what happened.

PS: nozzle check print outs before and after replacing the cyan cartridge appear to be exactly the same.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 06:12:26 PM by Frans Waterlander »
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2018, 06:13:51 PM »

A) The cyan cartridge was running on empty, as indicated by the ink monitor, and suddenly, after being fine for hundreds of prints, supplied less ink. If that is the case then the ink monitor may not handle all corner cases correctly.
 B) The cyan cartridge, after being fine for hundreds of prints, suddenly turned bad. What that bad may be, I don't know. It was certainly not clogged nozzles, deflected nozzles or pigment separation.
As predicted before you even got the new cartridge:

He'll perhaps get his new cartridge and perhaps the issue will go away and he'll post his confirmation seen in post #4 as being correct without using a lick of the scientific medhtodgy to conform his confirmation bias. Could be a defective ink cartridge or one that simply failed, or one that needed shaking or a hardware issue, or air bubble in the ink line, or USER ERROR, etc.
A is wrong and explained why.
B is possible but since your testing methodology (lack of nozzle checks, trying suggested fixes) was so poorly done, we'll never know.
What you should have learned:
A. Keep spare ink carts around.
B. Don't ask questions when you know you'll reject the answers.
C. Keep a nozzle check that is known to be good (after printing to prove so), LEARN to read them (you were shown, probably fell on deaf ears).

"Listen to understand instead of listening to respond." - Barack Obama
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Andrew Rodney
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Farmer

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2018, 06:51:48 PM »

A) The cyan cartridge was running on empty, as indicated by the ink monitor, and suddenly, after being fine for hundreds of prints, supplied less ink. If that is the case then the ink monitor may not handle all corner cases correctly.
 B) The cyan cartridge, after being fine for hundreds of prints, suddenly turned bad. What that bad may be, I don't know. It was certainly not clogged nozzles, deflected nozzles or pigment separation.
 Hate it if you don't know for sure what happened.

PS: nozzle check print outs before and after replacing the cyan cartridge appear to be exactly the same.

A - Simply not possible.  If the cart was empty or not providing enough ink, you would either see that in the nozzle check or, if it had partial supply, you'd see the effect gradually appear as the supply was unable to keep up with demand.  But, given this is a small cartridge unit, running out is a pretty sudden and obvious issue.

B - It may have been some separation or there could have been something else wrong with the ink for some reason (how long after opening it was it in the printer?)

It would be useful if you posted before and after nozzle checks from before and after prints.
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Phil Brown

Frans Waterlander

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2018, 07:46:32 PM »

A - Simply not possible.  If the cart was empty or not providing enough ink, you would either see that in the nozzle check or, if it had partial supply, you'd see the effect gradually appear as the supply was unable to keep up with demand.  But, given this is a small cartridge unit, running out is a pretty sudden and obvious issue.

B - It may have been some separation or there could have been something else wrong with the ink for some reason (how long after opening it was it in the printer?)

It would be useful if you posted before and after nozzle checks from before and after prints.

Before and after nozzle checks are identical.
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Farmer

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2018, 07:55:46 PM »

To you.
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Phil Brown

digitaldog

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Re: Epson R2880 suddenly prints with reddish color cast
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2018, 07:58:48 PM »

To you.
I warned you its pointless to convince him.  ;)
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"
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