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fredjeang2

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Need advice on XAVC S no Slog
« on: April 30, 2018, 07:23:00 AM »

I'm looking for advices from experienced Sony users
On valuable picture profiles settings for motion but
Without using Slog to use in-camera. (For the use with external recorder I know what to expect having worked with Slog 3 already)

This is because I'm currently looking for investing into an hybrid system - cancelled a G9 order for the moment to test more alternatives -
testing between M43, Fujifilm and Sony (I like them all to be honest and the choice is tough as they are all 3 great systems) so it's going to help me
Having information on those profiles, there are so many possible combinations and won't have time to put all that on test those weeks cause I'm overwhelmed by work.
So I need a "safe" or good starting point to get the best out of it.
(A bit in the same spirit as what Fuji did with Eterna, avoiding a log workflow)
Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 01:04:37 PM by fredjeang2 »
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bcooter

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Re: Need advice on XAVC S no Slog
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 07:20:29 PM »

I'm looking for advices from experienced Sony users
On valuable picture profiles settings for motion but
Without using Slog to use in-camera. (For the use with external recorder I know what to expect having worked with Slog 3 already)

This is because I'm currently looking for investing into an hybrid system - cancelled a G9 order for the moment to test more alternatives -
testing between M43, Fujifilm and Sony (I like them all to be honest and the choice is tough as they are all 3 great systems) so it's going to help me
Having information on those profiles, there are so many possible combinations and won't have time to put all that on test those weeks cause I'm overwhelmed by work.
So I need a "safe" or good starting point to get the best out of it.
(A bit in the same spirit as what Fuji did with Eterna, avoiding a log workflow)
Thanks.


Fred,

Rent one or all, test them in all kinds of light and find your settings.

I find my Canon's don't cast especially with LED's and some cameras with LED's tend to cast a lot, also my REDs don't cast, but that little Sony A7sII casts like crazy.  A friend who knows a lot about Sony's says the new Sony's have good skin tones and he says the only people that don't like the older Sony's colors are people that come from Canon, so maybe it's what I'm use to.

This is shot with a mono block type of LED and usually Red Heads with translucent skin are hard to hit color on, but with the 1dx no issue.



1/320 Sec, F4, 1250 ISO.

IMO

BC



fredjeang2

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Re: Need advice on XAVC S no Slog
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 08:30:55 AM »


Fred,

Rent one or all, test them in all kinds of light and find your settings.

I find my Canon's don't cast especially with LED's and some cameras with LED's tend to cast a lot, also my REDs don't cast, but that little Sony A7sII casts like crazy.  A friend who knows a lot about Sony's says the new Sony's have good skin tones and he says the only people that don't like the older Sony's colors are people that come from Canon, so maybe it's what I'm use to.

This is shot with a mono block type of LED and usually Red Heads with translucent skin are hard to hit color on, but with the 1dx no issue.



1/320 Sec, F4, 1250 ISO.

IMO

BC
So far I've been testing intensively the Panasonic G9 which I loved (great improvement on color science and skin tones much much better than before, reminding a bit Nikon's top line);
And less intensively Fuji XH1 which didn't light my fire as much as the G9 at first but got better after awhile in use.
Fuji lenses are awesome however I didn not have the opportunity to put it into test in real studio shooting but only in casual
Street kind of stuff.
Sony, to me is the big deal with Panasonic. I love what they do except the crazy menu system that I found extremely messy, unlogical (I think the worse I've seen so far) but the cure is easy just that it takes a while to customize the camera.
But as you pointed, the big issue with Sony I had found in the past was that it casted a heck of a lot 90% of the time in certain conditions as you described. And it caught my attention how recurrent was a magenta cast in most of the imagery I had edited from others. I hated the skin tones and thought something specific to Sony was wrong in this area. But then I found that some hard core Sony users did not have this problem so a question arised: if there is a Sony issue or simply a misconception of Sony color science because most where coming from Canon. What seems to happens is that former Canon shooters need to delearn Canon.
But what happens with Sony, and that is the point of my tread, is that the electronic is extremely sophisticated and for ex in the picture profiles, almost infinite combinations are possible, which makes the all testing quite tedius when one has little time to dig (dedicate it time) as I do right now and is a newcomer into the system.
This morning I shooted informal stuff with 2 and for the moment I'm very pleased by the overall package. AF works really well although I've been in situations it was fooled or hunting when a 1d would not, but this is rare. I've spent those days centered on the AF system getting used of its operations on the field. It performs very very well and it is usable for motion in many cases but you have to set a few things in the menu such as the AF drive speed on Slow etc... I haven't review the material yet but yeah...I changed my mind on Sony. They really do great stuff well priced.
The only thing is that I find them more complicated to set-up.
I also quite like the Sony App Catalyst and they have a free viewer+raw dev for stills that I found perfect for Sony files because I never ever used Lightroom (I used C1 and Focus) and my workflow is 100% PS based.

The mirrorless hybrid current panorama is mostly Sony and Panasonic.
Those are really the ones who put a lot into R&D.
IMO, Canon and Nikon have to move their bones soon, specially Nikon.

Ps: nice James. Love the expression of her face and colour.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 08:47:42 AM by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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Re: Need advice on XAVC S no Slog
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 04:22:39 AM »


Fred,

Rent one or all, test them in all kinds of light and find your settings.

I find my Canon's don't cast especially with LED's and some cameras with LED's tend to cast a lot, also my REDs don't cast, but that little Sony A7sII casts like crazy.  A friend who knows a lot about Sony's says the new Sony's have good skin tones and he says the only people that don't like the older Sony's colors are people that come from Canon, so maybe it's what I'm use to.

This is shot with a mono block type of LED and usually Red Heads with translucent skin are hard to hit color on, but with the 1dx no issue.



1/320 Sec, F4, 1250 ISO.

IMO

BC
Ah ah
I found the infos I needed on Sony official themselves.
For ex, I saw "pro" in color mode options and asked myself what do they mean by "pro"?!
Sony answer: Color tones similar to standard Sony broadcast camera image quality.
And more importantly, they add: used in combination with [ITU709] gamma curve. Logical once we know the first terminology's meaning.
All paremeters are explained.
Et voilą.
Sony's guide is quite comprehensive.
Good explainations on how to set knee/ slope too. One important point here:
Sony: A negative slope setting results in a gentler knee slope angle. This expands the dynamic range, but reduces the ability to produce rich gradations. A positive slope setting makes the knee slope inclination steeper. This shrinks the dynamic range, but bolsters the ability to express gradations.

I'll stick with what Sony engineers say, no weired (endless) experiments.

Ps: it's interesting to note that in my researches on line, you find every fancy combinations tagged as "best settings" and so on...everything, except what Sony itself preconises. It seems that they are all mystified by the quest of the-film-look (what is film look? I'd like to know)
Just like people go to India in search of enlightenment, (this will never happens except for the guru's bank account).
So they set uncompatible combinations in picture profiles but what really occurs is that they use their equipment beyond
Limits. And as we know that mind can create astrovisions just by beleifs, if one beleives he has the magical film look recipe, he/she will see the mirage (the Leica look). They complicate everything.
We've all seen those hazardous waste experiments such as Arri Luts on Slog... If Sony says this or that for their own engineering it is for a reason.
That may explain the recurrent casts too. The weak point ain't the gear but human factor.
In the end James, it is quite obvious that, if for one part internet gives us access to an incredible amount of
Datas, most are not reliable informations. Everybody opinates, everyone knows, but the real
Knowledge is not so easy to find out.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 09:28:12 AM by fredjeang2 »
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