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Author Topic: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.  (Read 107957 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #600 on: June 14, 2018, 02:16:36 am »

Two degrees temperature difference can be tolerable in a certain range, and deadly in another range.

As mentioned somewhere else, on my Alaska trip some years ago I swam at the Chena Hot Springs in a small hot lake where normally the water temperature is kept around 106F (41C). They mix natural hot water intake (165F) with cold water from another spring. 106F can be tolerated for a brief wading in the lake, but they don't recommend swimming. On my second day there, their cold water pump didn't work, and the lake temperature reached about 110F (4 degrees difference in Fahrenheit and 2 degrees in Celsius). At that temperature the water was too hot just to enter the pool.

I operate best in a rather narrow temperature range. Somewhere between 18 and 25C.

Why do you want to bathe in such hot water?  If climate change makes it too hot, you'll just stop bathing there.   Similarly,  if it gets too hot in some of the world's areas for people to live in, they'll just adapt or move.  So will the animals.  Climate change is nothing new. 

Also, as I mentioned before, who says that two degrees higher is not better than what we have now?  Why assume current conditions are optimum?  It's hubris when man thinks that just because he's experiencing something now, that it's the best in the 4.5 billion year history of the earth.  It may turn out that a few degrees warmer is actually better. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #601 on: June 14, 2018, 07:44:43 am »

Because I don't like playing chess with pigeons, I'll just post this here & not comment further - 

"Ice in the Antarctic is melting at a record-breaking rate and the subsequent sea rises could have catastrophic consequences for cities around the world, according to two new studies.
[...]
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/13/antarctic-ice-melting-faster-than-ever-studies-show

Indeed, although not really a surprise, but it's looking worse than previously thought. Which is cause for concern.
Here's another article about this research paper that's also special in the sense that it's a collaborative effort to combine many separate research projects that focused on specific aspects of the bigger picture.

Latest estimate shows how much Antarctic ice has fallen into the sea
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/06/latest-estimate-shows-how-much-antarctic-ice-has-fallen-into-the-sea/

"The complex, multi-pronged nature of this effort means that researchers frequently publish separate estimates of change based on the type of data they are collecting, rather than integrating all sources of information. These numbers can naturally differ, making it hard to put your finger on one answer.

Enter the huge collaboration of Antarctic researchers called the IMBIE Project (the Ice Sheet Mass Balance Inter-comparison Exercise). This week, that collaboration published a new analysis of all the available data from dozens of studies, producing an overall best estimate of Antarctic ice loss between 1992 and 2017.
"

This bigger picture does not look good if one understands that the acceleration that has been observed happened over a period of just 25 years, and the idea that the amount of Antarctic ice is large enough to cause almost 60 metres (almost 200 feet) sea level rise. Sure, that won't happen overnight, but it's irresponsible to let it even start and potentially run out of control in that direction if tipping points are crossed.

We do not have a planet B.

Cheers,
Bart
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RSL

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #602 on: June 14, 2018, 08:01:31 am »

What "urgent action" can possibly be done?

We can all run home and hide under the bed.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #603 on: June 14, 2018, 10:07:21 am »

Because I don't like playing chess with pigeons...

Thanks, mate.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #604 on: June 14, 2018, 10:29:38 am »

Since you are once again repeating the alarmist predictions, only fair to repeat the last one too:

Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #605 on: June 14, 2018, 10:38:20 am »

...

This bigger picture does not look good if one understands that the acceleration that has been observed happened over a period of just 25 years, and the idea that the amount of Antarctic ice is large enough to cause almost 60 metres (almost 200 feet) sea level rise. Sure, that won't happen overnight, but it's irresponsible to let it even start and potentially run out of control in that direction if tipping points are crossed.

We do not have a planet B.

Cheers,
Bart
There you go cherry picking numbers to scare people.  To get the 60 metres (almost 200 feet) rise in sea level, the entire ice and snow covering in the Antarctic would have to melt.  No one is predicting that anytime soon.  It's been collecting snow for 35 million years ever since its land mass moved to the pole where there is little direct sunlight even in the summer.  Unless the Antarctic suddenly starts moving north, which isn't going to happen, it's not all going to melt.  It's silly fear tactics like this that weakens your position.  You sound like a used car salesman or insurance salesman.  You'd convince more people if you stopped the hyperbole. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #606 on: June 14, 2018, 11:23:35 am »

Since you are once again repeating the alarmist predictions, only fair to repeat the last one too:

Prediction???

Care to show where Al Gore actually said that? Or is this another one pulled out of where the sun don't shine?

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. Not because I think Gore needs help, but because I don't expect you to produce any credible source, here's what he actually said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsioIw4bvzI

« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:36:48 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #607 on: June 14, 2018, 11:38:16 am »

... Care to show where Al Gore actually said that? Or is this another one pulled out of where the sun don't shine?

First, I do not post things that are pulled out of thin air (to avoid repeating your vulgarity). Feel free to quote me if I ever did that.

Second, here is a YouTube video from December 14, 2009, speech he gave in UN Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen, Denmark (around 2:20s mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsioIw4bvzI

For those who do not like clicking on video links, he said "... new computer modeling suggests there is a 75 per cent chance of the entire polar ice cap melting during the summertime by 2014.



Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #608 on: June 14, 2018, 11:57:45 am »

First, I do not post things that are pulled out of thin air (to avoid repeating your vulgarity). Feel free to quote me if I ever did that.

Second, here is a YouTube video from December 14, 2009, speech he gave in UN Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen, Denmark (around 2:20s mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsioIw4bvzI

For those who do not like clicking on video links, he said "... new computer modeling suggests there is a 75 per cent chance of the entire polar ice cap melting during the summertime by 2014.

Even your quote is selective, inaccurate, and even then still does not show that Al Gore made the prediction that you suggested.

He actually said:
Some of the models suggest to Dr. Maslowski that there is a 75% chance that the entire North Polar ice cap, during summer, during some of the summer months, could be completely ice-free within the next 5 - 7 years. Bob used the number of 2030. And the volumetric analysis leads this Dr. Maslowski to make that projection. We will find out.

Sigh. Hope Alan K.'s not to harsh on you ...

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #609 on: June 14, 2018, 12:55:57 pm »

Even your quote is selective, inaccurate, and even then still does not show that Al Gore made the prediction that you suggested...


Seriously!?  In any case, I provided the video, so people can decide for themselves.   

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #610 on: June 14, 2018, 01:00:27 pm »

Seriously!?  In any case, I provided the video, so people can decide for themselves.   

Quote from: Al Gore
And the volumetric analysis leads this Dr. Maslowski to make that projection. We will find out.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #611 on: June 14, 2018, 01:29:51 pm »

Dr. Maslowski denied he made such a prediction. It was Gore's interpretation of Dr. Maslowski's research, thus Gore owns that alarmist prediction.

Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #612 on: June 14, 2018, 02:05:51 pm »

Al Gore's a charlatan who's made over a hundred million dollars promoting global warming and climate  change. 

digitaldog

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #613 on: June 14, 2018, 03:01:35 pm »

Even your quote is selective, inaccurate, and even then still does not show that Al Gore made the prediction that you suggested.

He actually said:
Some of the models suggest to Dr. Maslowski that there is a 75% chance that the entire North Polar ice cap, during summer, during some of the summer months, could be completely ice-free within the next 5 - 7 years. Bob used the number of 2030. And the volumetric analysis leads this Dr. Maslowski to make that projection. We will find out.

Sigh. Hope Alan K.'s not to harsh on you ...

Cheers,
Bart


Clearly one of you is wrong.
Some models suggest and 75% chance and could be don't fit on the photo Slobodan posted and adding that text would probably dismiss using the photo for the intended purpose. But again, one of you is wrong about what Gore actually stated.  :( 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 03:07:45 pm by digitaldog »
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #614 on: June 14, 2018, 03:25:08 pm »

Al Gore's a charlatan who's made over a hundred million dollars promoting global warming and climate  change.

I don't think even his worst enemies would accuse him of "promoting" global warming or climate change. Isn't he against both?

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #615 on: June 14, 2018, 03:40:36 pm »

... Some models suggest and 75% chance and could be don't fit on the photo Slobodan posted...

"Predict" covers "chance," "models," and "could be" by definition, does it not? Especially a model with a 75% chance, don't you think?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #616 on: June 14, 2018, 03:42:17 pm »

... global warming or climate change. Isn't he against both?

Now that the Nobel Prize winner is against climate change, we can all sleep peacefully ;)

digitaldog

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #617 on: June 14, 2018, 03:45:20 pm »

"Predict" covers "chance," "models," and "could be" by definition, does it not? Especially a model with a 75% chance, don't you think?
What your illustration posted states, and what was stated in the video provided are not the same. Let's stick to that first, instead of you providing us a lesson on English and semantics.
Please provide a video or transcript as I did from a video, that states what your illustration implies Gore said.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #618 on: June 14, 2018, 07:15:57 pm »

What your illustration posted states, and what was stated in the video provided are not the same...

Of course it is not verbatim the same, why would it be? It is a summary, a headline. The essence is still the same, however. As any summary or any news headline, it is supposed to summarize the essence of a more detailed event or statement. As any other summary, it will, by definition, omit details. Denying that would deny newspapers and media the use of headlines. Denying that would require every headline to be a verbatim paragraph quote.

But let's, for the sake of argument, use the whole quote:

Quote
Some of the models suggest to Dr. Maslowski that there is a 75% chance that the entire North Polar ice cap, during summer, during some of the summer months, could be completely ice-free within the next 5 - 7 years.

So, let's see:

DID...

- the entire North Polar ice cap
- during summer
- or during some of the summer months
- or even during a split-second (see my generosity here?)
- get completely ice-free
- in 2014-2106

Did it, or did it not?

That's what matter, not your hairsplitting over a summary.

digitaldog

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #619 on: June 14, 2018, 07:23:30 pm »

Of course it is not verbatim the same, why would it be?
Are the ideas of honesty, accuracy, new for you, can I now take your writings out of context, reedit them, distort them with imagery behind them; that's OK with you?
Quote
It is a summary, a headline.
It isn't what he said. Period
Quote
The essence is still the same, however.
Perhaps for you. Not for Bart, not for me, perhaps for others.
Quote
DID...
Doesn't matter in terms of the butchering of what Gore actually said!
And if it didn't, that's moot as there was plenty of the text that stated this was a possibility, not a guarantee. Do you understand the difference in those two possibilities? 
Quote
That's what matter, not your hairsplitting over a summary.
What matters is the lie (you?) produced but certainly posted out of context, edited and made to prove a point that didn't exist. That tactic which is dishonest shows the lengths some here have to go to pass their agenda/opinions. Bart and I (others?) called it out. Justify the lie all you wish; it is still a lie.
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