Global Cooling. The sky is falling.

[RSL]

Much cheaper to prevent than to cure, even at this late stage.

Cheers,
Bart

Okay, Bart, tell us how you'd "prevent" it. Maybe eat less gassy foods?

[RSL]

And just wait for the shit hitting the fan repeatedly in New-York, and other major cities located near the shores ...

Cheers,
Bart

Shit hits the fan almost continuously in New York, Bart, or maybe you haven't been reading about the second left-wing attorney general in a row to go down the tubes in New York. As I mentioned earlier, the outcry is going to be earth-shaking.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Shit hits the fan almost continuously in New York, Bart, or maybe you haven't been reading about the second left-wing attorney general in a row to go down the tubes in New York. As I mentioned earlier, the outcry is going to be earth-shaking.

As far I know, that shit is filling another swamp, more in-land, near Washington DC (although there's still the Potomac to deal with).

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

So, it's not the Chinese?

Alan didn't even supply any proof for that claim, at all.

Cheers,
Bart

Here's the proof China is the biggest producer of CO2 and they're getting worse. https://www.ft.com/content/ba4212b6-c63f-11e7-a1d2-6786f39ef675

[Alan Klein]

If that link doesn't open, here's another report showing China's CO2 production is again increasing after being steady for three years.  They're polluting even more. https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Okay, Bart, tell us how you'd "prevent" it. Maybe eat less gassy foods?

By listening to good advice, at an early stage (better safe than sorry)?

At this late stage, not much left other than calling in us Dutchmen. Not a cheap solution, but the cost will keep rising. We've have had centuries of experience with protecting against rising water levels, and even with reclaiming land from the sea. We grew our landmass (for agriculture an building cities) without having to fight a war with our neighbors.

So, one might prevent things from getting worse...

Cheers,
Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Here's the proof China is the biggest producer of CO2 and they're getting worse. https://www.ft.com/content/ba4212b6-c63f-11e7-a1d2-6786f39ef675

The link is blocked for non-subscribers to the Financial Times. But I'm pretty sure who the number 2 producer is ...

Cheers,
Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

If that link doesn't open, here's another report showing China's CO2 production is again increasing after being steady for three years.  They're polluting even more. https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/

And the number 2:  https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/usa/ ?

No wait, based on your source https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/ (which I assume you find trustworthy), China is rated as "Highly insufficient", and the USA is rated "Critically insufficient".

In fact, based on per capita emissions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions) the USA ranks very high (#11) and China comes in at #42 on these figures for 2013.

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

The link is blocked for non-subscribers to the Financial Times. But I'm pretty sure who the number 2 producer is ...

Cheers,
Bart

China is #1 at 30% of the world's CO2 production up from 27% about 6 years ago.  Meanwhile, America, at #2, is less than half China's at 14% down from 17%. Yeah, I know.  You're going to talk about per capita production.  But the earth doesn't care about per capita only totals produced.  And China still continues to increase while America is getting "cleaner".  Meanwhile China doesn't have to do anything regarding the Paris accords until 2030. 

We all argued these points in the now defunct forum thread.  By the way, most of Europe isn't meeting their Paris commitments either to reduce CO2.   The whole thing was political and Trump was right pulling out. 

Meanwhile, we now find out that the German automaker Audi, part of the crooks from Volkswagen, has also cheated on diesel pollution adding to CO2.  They're all a bunch of hypocrites and liars like the Chinese. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-08/audi-faces-fresh-diesel-engine-recall-for-a6-model-spiegel-says 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

China is #1 at 30% of the world's CO2 production up from 27% about 6 years ago.  Meanwhile, America, at #2, is less than half China's at 14% down from 17%. Yeah, I know.  You're going to talk about per capita production.

Hell yeah, 14%/30% = 46.7% of the emissions, by 325.7/1379 million =  23.6% of the number of people. (Double-)Shame on you!

Time to put the blame where it belongs. Grow up Alan, and take responsibility, and act upon it.

Cheers,
Bart

[LesPalenik]

China is #1 at 30% of the world's CO2 production up from 27% about 6 years ago.  Meanwhile, America, at #2, is less than half China's at 14% down from 17%. Yeah, I know.  You're going to talk about per capita production.  But the earth doesn't care about per capita only totals produced.  And China still continues to increase while America is getting "cleaner".  Meanwhile China doesn't have to do anything regarding the Paris accords until 2030. 

We all argued these points in the now defunct forum thread.  By the way, most of Europe isn't meeting their Paris commitments either to reduce CO2.   The whole thing was political and Trump was right pulling out. 

Meanwhile, we now find out that the German automaker Audi, part of the crooks from Volkswagen, has also cheated on diesel pollution adding to CO2.  They're all a bunch of hypocrites and liars like the Chinese. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-08/audi-faces-fresh-diesel-engine-recall-for-a6-model-spiegel-says

Not only CO2, but also methane. Greenhouse gases are generated at every stage of livestock production. Animal wastes and the digestive process emit methane, which scientists say can warm the planet 34 times faster than carbon dioxide over a 100-year period. Animal wastes also emit another type of greenhouse gas called nitrous oxide, which is nearly 300 times more powerful than carbon dioxide.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-s-appetite-for-meat-swells-along-with-climate-changing-pollution/

In 1949, there were only about 100,000 head of dairy cattle in China; in 2015, they had over 16 million cows. Compared with 40 million cows in India.
However, both India and China are now experimenting with burning the cow-produced methane and using it even for the generation of electricity.

[Alan Klein]

Hell yeah, 14%/30% = 46.7% of the emissions, by 325.7/1379 million =  23.6% of the number of people. Shame on you!

Time to put the blame where it belongs. Grow up Alan, and take responsibility, and act upon it.

Cheers,
Bart

Why do you always resort to ad hominin attacks. "Grow up", you tell me.  You called someone else earlier a "child".  I didn't realize you were the only adult in the room.  You ought to show a little more respect to the people you disagree with. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Why do you always resort to ad hominin attacks. "Grow up", you tell me.  You called someone else earlier a "child".  I didn't realize you were the only adult in the room.  You ought to show a little more respect to the people you disagree with.

Respect has to be earned, and honesty goes a long way towards achieving that. One doesn't have to agree, but one has to act in an adult way.

Cheers,
Bart

[Chairman Bill]

It matters none, Bill. The deniers do not accept any proof (except maybe from distilling), because one cannot ever know everything ...
They also condemn the scientific research and peer-review, especially when it confirms a hypothesis they don't like.

Even relatively simple things, like measuring the temperature that Earth emits at the surface, and doing the same above the Troposphere (or even Stratosphere), i.e. the Greenhouse effect, is not accepted.

And when science gets even more specific, like breaking down the same temperature difference at the level of wavelengths (which shows which elements caused the absorptions), they will deny the results (even when the absorption spectra can be replicated in controlled laboratory experiments).

Cheers,
Bart

Yeah, but you can prove anything with facts. And I mean, what do these 'experts' know, eh? :-)

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Yeah, but you can prove anything with facts. And I mean, what do these 'experts' know, eh? :-)

Cheers,
Bart

[LesPalenik]

Meanwhile, we now find out that the German automaker Audi, part of the crooks from Volkswagen, has also cheated on diesel pollution adding to CO2.  They're all a bunch of hypocrites and liars like the Chinese. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-08/audi-faces-fresh-diesel-engine-recall-for-a6-model-spiegel-says

Not that I condone the practices of German diesel manufacturers, but the U.S. cars are still almost twice as polluting as Europe's and Japan's. JATO’s study of the U.S. light vehicle market in the first quarter of 2010 reveals that the market’s average CO2 output is 268.5 g/km. In order to reflect like-for-like comparison with car markets in other global regions, excluding pick-up trucks, full size vans and small commercial vehicles, the figure falls to 255.6 g/km. This figure compares very unfavorably to Japan (130.8 g/km) and Europe’s five biggest markets, which average 140.3 g/km.

https://newatlas.com/us-european-japanese-car-market-co2-pollution/15485/

[RSL]

As far I know, that shit is filling another swamp, more in-land, near Washington DC (although there's still the Potomac to deal with).

Cheers,
Bart

Actually it's happening in Albany, which is far enough inland that none of the shit will get into the ocean.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Actually it's happening in Albany, which is far enough inland that none of the shit will get into the ocean.

Well done, Russ. If only the same could be said for what is emitted in the air and through the rivers that do reach the oceans or neighboring countries ...

Cheers,
Bart

[LesPalenik]

Actually it's happening in Albany, which is far enough inland that none of the shit will get into the ocean.

I mentioned it earlier in some other thread, that about 30 years ago I happened to paddle on the Guadalupe river in central Texas which starts as a clear cold stream from the bottom of the Canon Lake dam and then it flows gently between the cattle ranches. After about 15-20 miles below the dam the river gets quite warm and very polluted just from the pasture runoffs that I lost any desire for a swim. As mentioned, all the pollution on that river stretch seemed just from the farming. However, according to a 2012 Environment Texas report, industrial facilities dumped 14.6 million pounds of toxic chemicals into Texas’ waterways, making Texas’ waterways the fourth worst in the nation.

[PeterAit]

and how we ought to reduce our production of CO2, though nobody's suggested how we might get the world to reduce CO2 emissions enough to have an effect on (maybe) rising temperatures (maybe) caused by CO2 emissions.

Are you serious? There have been hosts of suggestions for reducing CO2 and other greenhouse gasses, including wind power, solar energy, no fracking, reduction of deforestation, less consumption of meat, and abandonment of coal. If you want to be taken seriously you shouldn't say such ridiculous things.