Global Cooling. The sky is falling.

[Alan Klein]

Modern engine electronic controls were introduced primarily because it was the best way of controlling engines in such a way to make them pollute less. ...

German car manufacturers used modern electronic computers to hide the fact their diesel engines were polluting more.  You just can't trust machines any more.  Or statistics. 

[Robert Roaldi]

German car manufacturers used modern electronic computers to hide the fact their diesel engines were polluting more.  You just can't trust machines any more.  Or statistics.

Cute, but the air in our cities is much better than it was and there are way more cars on the road now. Way more.

It's ok to admit that modern cars are better, guys, you won't get thrown out of your tribe if you say so. Or do you think it's fake news? 

You know how you always look for both sides in the climate control debate, that maybe warming (even though it may not exist) might actually be good. I suggest that you look again at the industries set up to develop clean air and water technologies. Maybe there are two sides to that issue too. Maybe the various solutions they develop may cost more to implement at first, but that they will have long-term benefits. Try to look at both sides, just saying. 

[Alan Klein]

Cute, but the air in our cities is much better than it was and there are way more cars on the road now. Way more.

It's ok to admit that modern cars are better, guys, you won't get thrown out of your tribe if you say so. Or do you think it's fake news? 

You know how you always look for both sides in the climate control debate, that maybe warming (even though it may not exist) might actually be good. I suggest that you look again at the industries set up to develop clean air and water technologies. Maybe there are two sides to that issue too. Maybe the various solutions they develop may cost more to implement at first, but that they will have long-term benefits. Try to look at both sides, just saying. 

I think there's been a lot of good from regulation and just plain modern developments that have improved not only how cars operate, their reliability, but also they run cleaner and more efficiently.  Outside of battery problems, which is really maintenance not repairs, I can't remember the last time I had a problem with my cars. 

My "cute" joke about diesels was just a "dig" at Germany who complains about American's supposed ignorance and care about pollution.  Meanwhile, they're lying to and polluting the whole world and cheating everyone.  Most people don't realize the most of the cleaner air push with cars came from America, specifically California.  They had a huge smog problem in Los Angeles and elsewhere due to autos.  They passed very stringent regulations that forced the American manufacturers and subsequently foreign manufacturers to start producing cleaner running autos.  Otherwise, their cars couldn't be sold there.  Every year Americans have to get their existing old cars inspected to pass stringent pollution tests before they can get approved to be driven on the roads.   Americans like to breathe too.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...It's ok to admit that modern cars are better, guys, you won't get thrown out of your tribe if you say so. Or do you think it's fake news?  ...

No, we think it is a straw man.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Modern engine electronic controls were introduced primarily because it was the best way of controlling engines in such a way to make them pollute less. It was also cheaper to build engines that way. As a happy consequence of that we have better cars. Of course better quality control played a role. But I don't it's correct to imply that there exists merely a correlation between anti-pollution efforts and better performance. They are not just points on a graph. [emphasis added]

Are you seriously suggesting that manufacturers would not have adopted a cheaper method of building engines in the absence of pollution legislation?

German car manufacturers used modern electronic computers to hide the fact their diesel engines were polluting more.

No, not "polluting more" if by that you mean having higher emissions than earlier engines. Just polluting more than they were legally allowed to pollute. There's a difference.

Jeremy

[RSL]

Good grief, Jeremy, do you really mean to suggest bringing logic into this "discussion?"

[Robert Roaldi]

"Uncle."

It's entirely a coincidence that modern day cars are better.

[Alan Klein]

By polluting "more" I meant more than people assumed was happening on the newer engines.   They actually were putting 40x more than they were suppose too or claimed.

[Jeremy Roussak]

Good grief, Jeremy, do you really mean to suggest bringing logic into this "discussion?"

Sorry, Russ. Fair point.

"Uncle."

It's entirely a coincidence that modern day cars are better.

Uncle?

By polluting "more" I meant more than people assumed was happening on the newer engines.   They actually were putting 40x more than they were suppose to or claimed.

Rather less, I think: 5-15x or 10-20x, depending on model.

Jeremy

[Alan Klein]

...

Rather less, I think: 5-15x or 10-20x, depending on model.

Jeremy

Thanks for cleaning that up.  I'm breathing better already. 

[Tim Lookingbill]

Cute, but the air in our cities is much better than it was and there are way more cars on the road now. Way more.

It's ok to admit that modern cars are better, guys, you won't get thrown out of your tribe if you say so. Or do you think it's fake news? 

You know how you always look for both sides in the climate control debate, that maybe warming (even though it may not exist) might actually be good. I suggest that you look again at the industries set up to develop clean air and water technologies. Maybe there are two sides to that issue too. Maybe the various solutions they develop may cost more to implement at first, but that they will have long-term benefits. Try to look at both sides, just saying. 

I agree with you about cars better at emitting less pollution. But now a lot of this is being controlled more and more by software as Alan pointed out about German made cars which I'ld also extend to American made models as well.

I"m more afraid of software in modern cars today than I am in my '92 Nissan Sentra's computer module to the point I'm fending off buying any used vehicle that was made after 2001 which is around the time Nissan switched from cabled throttle to "Fly By Wire" software regulated remote throttle control in all their models. Not sure about when the other brands did the same. Now a modern car's software can kill if it hasn't been updated.

https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1116912_fca-tells-4-8m-vehicle-owners-to-stop-using-cruise-control-until-software-fix

My '92 Nissan Sentra's exhaust still smells wonderful compared to any year made American Chevy, Dodge or Ford truck which I have to role up my windows to avoid getting a headache from their exhaust at stop lights.

I just replaced my entire engine cooling system components (hoses, thermostat and radiator) last week at an Express Lube Plus and it was still cheaper than buying a ten year or newer used vehicle of any brand. No air bags, no cruise control, no power windows and no software to update in over 20 years. I'll have to buy a fleet vehicle similar to those U-Haul uses to get an electronically stripped down model similar to my simple Sentra.

And now my local weather man shows a new NASA satellite view to prove California's anti-pollution regulation standards are really working going by the global map from this article...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2012/11/15/nasa_creates_computer_model_of_dust_storms_forest_fires_and_sea_salt.html

Here's a 2017 video explaining NASA aerosol simulations... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1eRp0EGOmE

[Alan Goldhammer]

Pretty Ugly Weather Map for most of the US - No Global Cooling Here

[Jeremy Roussak]

Pretty Ugly Weather Map for most of the US - No Global Cooling Here

I think you (and the subeditor who composed the title) are confusing "weather" and "climate".

It's a common mistake.

Jeremy

[RSL]

Pretty Ugly Weather Map for most of the US - No Global Cooling Here

Well, I can't read the map without paying to do it. Considering the source, I conclude it's not worth doing

You're still posting in The Coffee Corner, Alan, after swearing you were out of here for good. What made you change your mind?

[digitaldog]

Well, I can't read the map without paying to do it.

Link worked for me, I'm not a paying subscriber. Try again. Unless you're sure what you haven't seen is fake. 

[degrub]

It is a developing approach by news sites to limit the number of "free" views of articles per month. Russ, you probably already hit their limit. i got a warning about almost being out of views.

Shoot, if anyone wants some heat index, just head on down South. We have plenty to share - free. And we will throw in some rain on the days it is under a hundred five, just to make it feel better. Good for your skin though...

[digitaldog]

Russ, you probably already hit their limit.

Russ?

[Frans Waterlander]

Russ?

Yes, as in Russ Lewis. Can't you read and figure out a signature?

[Alan Goldhammer]

World Bank Study on Climate Change Impact on South Asia:  Not Good News

[RSL]

Russ, you probably already hit their limit.

If I hit their limit, their limit must have been 0. I think they realize I don't believe their stuff and am likely to shoot it down, so they're not gonna let me see it.