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Author Topic: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom  (Read 2619 times)

Michael Letchford

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Hi All,

Has anyone tried the latest update from Adobe and used the all new conversion profiles yet?

Mike
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mouse

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2018, 05:57:39 pm »

A link would be nice.
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digitaldog

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2018, 06:30:18 pm »

All no, but some nice additions to the products. Lots of new capabilities with .dcp profiles/xmp and LUTs. Browser makes it so much easier to select, assign favorites etc.
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/whats-new-lightroom-cc-2018-04/
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/camera-profiles/
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rdonson

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2018, 07:58:51 pm »

Not all but some.  I will probably test more over the coming month.
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Regards,
Ron

peterwgallagher

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 04:52:46 am »

Michael, I’ve tried several of the colour profiles (as I imagine, by now, have you) but not the B/W profiles. That’s your forte, not mine.

I find them occasionally interesting. But I use my own color profile created to straddle 55K-65K color temps in raws produced by my camera. So I fall back to the built-in LR/ACR profiles only when I’m looking for something different (not often) OR when I’m processing a non-raw file such as a TIFF that I cannot apply my own profile to. They’re also helpful in LR Mobile because there I cannot use my camera-specific profile.

I can’t help thinking they’re mostly Adobe marketing for the “presets” user. But the plain-style “Adobe Color” is, in my view, a good “plain style” representation for most well-lit scenes.
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digitaldog

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2018, 11:06:39 am »

Presets and profiles are quite different although I can see how the line could appear to be blurred.
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donbga

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2018, 01:42:58 pm »

... but not the B/W profiles.

What is a B/W profile? A B/W preset?

Thanks,

Don Bryant


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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2018, 02:08:09 pm »

What is a B/W profile? A B/W preset?

They are (under-the-hood) presets, I presume ...
If so, the confusion does not help.

Cheers,
Bart
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digitaldog

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2018, 02:39:45 pm »

What is a B/W profile? A B/W preset?
There are profiles and there are presets and they differ in behavior and usage.

If the sliders move, it's a preset. If the sliders don't move, it's a profile. And they are separated in the browser, partially for this reason.

There are  two types of profiles now: DCPs and the newer XMP-based ones. In terms of the newer XMP based profiles, they specify a base DCP. For the vast majority of them, including those made by third parties, that base DCP will be Adobe Standard. So the first consideration is that XMP Profiles are built on top of DCPs and extend the DCP profile. On top of the base DCP, there is an optional Look Up Table/LUT. XMP-based profile can also specify many but not all of the options from the GUI we use. There are some reasons why these profiles do not move corresponding sliders. For example, a preset for vignetting adds just a vignette and do nothing else, the other adjustments are not altered.

There are other presets that define the total look of your image, they alter multiple sliders, and could in theory alter every slider, setting some to zero or otherwise. The problem comes about if you've spent time working on an image, then apply such a preset; all the work you did gets undone and replaced by this preset.

Say you have a profile that affects exposure for under exposed images. You can use them and then alter exposure for one image that needs that exposure tweak and more if set in said profile. The profile's exposure is added or subtracted from your setting. This allows any exposure that is part of the profile's look to be applied without trashing your setting. With XMP profiles, everything is set to zero. But think of the new profiles this way; they don't actually leave the sliders at zero even though they appear that way, they change the meaning of zero.

Here's where the differences in a preset and a profile get interesting. Imagine you have three images with differing exposures: one is ideal, one is under exposed by a stop and the third is over exposed by 1 stop.

Now suppose you manually adjust each with the Exposure Slider so they appear the same. And you'd see three differing Exposure slider settings or course. Now suppose you're using the older presets such it's set to +1 and (and perhaps other settings to alter the image) to all three images instead. Each gets the same setting which isn't ideal; only one would appear as you wish. All three show a difference in the Exposure slider of course. So this preset isn't what the creator would desire in this case use on three differing exposured images.

Now from presets to Profiles

Now suppose you use a profile that has a +1 exposure setting baked into it. Yes, all three images now appear differently due to that +1 exposure in the profile but they have the same exposure slider values as before the profile was applied! Again, the new profiles don't actually leave the sliders at zero, they change what zero means. Now using the example above, if you've had to increase your exposure for under exposure image, decrease the other image, that edit is still respected, but the profile's exposure is added or subtracted from your new manual setting. This allows any exposure that is part of the profile's look to be applied without altering your Exposure slider settings. You now switch to another profile after altering the exposure settings for the three images above, that Exposure setting for all three images is still honored. You'd see +1, -1 and zero for exposure.
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Michael Letchford

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2018, 04:48:33 pm »

Michael, I’ve tried several of the colour profiles (as I imagine, by now, have you) but not the B/W profiles. That’s your forte, not mine.

I find them occasionally interesting. But I use my own color profile created to straddle 55K-65K color temps in raws produced by my camera. So I fall back to the built-in LR/ACR profiles only when I’m looking for something different (not often) OR when I’m processing a non-raw file such as a TIFF that I cannot apply my own profile to. They’re also helpful in LR Mobile because there I cannot use my camera-specific profile.

I can’t help thinking they’re mostly Adobe marketing for the “presets” user. But the plain-style “Adobe Color” is, in my view, a good “plain style” representation for most well-lit scenes.

Hi Peter. Yes, B&W is definitely more my forte. That comes from being colour-blind and never being quite sure if an image has a colour caste of any sort - so I blunder on with monochrome :-) Also, I hadn't even thought of using LR mobile when I'm on the move - thanks for the idea.

I have been using the presets / profiles ( I am also confused on the terminology here - but the sliders can definitely still be moved after the conversion is applied) this past week or so. I've put together some first impressions, if anyone hasn't yet tried them and wants to see some examples - link below. When I use presets, and I have used all sorts in the past settling on DxO's FilmPack Elite and modifying from there - 'cos I just like the results - but when I don't I just use the sliders in ACR or Photoshop as my starting point, But I did find the new ones worth a shot:-

http://www.michael-letchford.com/blog/new-adobe-camera-raw-monochrome-profiles

Would anyone else want to put up some examples / comparisons with basic methods or third party plugins. I know many people still use SilverEfex etc but that never worked for me. I'd be very interested to see them.

Mike
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Michael Letchford

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2018, 05:02:23 pm »

There are profiles and there are presets and they differ in behavior and usage.

If the sliders move, it's a preset. If the sliders don't move, it's a profile. And they are separated in the browser, partially for this reason............

.............. Now suppose you use a profile that has a +1 exposure setting baked into it. Yes, all three images now appear differently due to that +1 exposure in the profile but they have the same exposure slider values as before the profile was applied! Again, the new profiles don't actually leave the sliders at zero, they change what zero means. Now using the example above, if you've had to increase your exposure for under exposure image, decrease the other image, that edit is still respected, but the profile's exposure is added or subtracted from your new manual setting. This allows any exposure that is part of the profile's look to be applied without altering your Exposure slider settings. You now switch to another profile after altering the exposure settings for the three images above, that Exposure setting for all three images is still honored. You'd see +1, -1 and zero for exposure.

Wow - thanks Andrew! That explanation's not so easy to follow until you actually try it out, but very thought provoking.

Mike
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digitaldog

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2018, 05:03:49 pm »

Wow - thanks Andrew! That explanation's not so easy to follow until you actually try it out, but very thought provoking.
And 'they' say color management is difficult to understand.  ;D
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peterwgallagher

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Re: New Adobe Colour and Monochrome Profiles for ACR and Lightroom
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 06:31:14 am »

... But I did find the new ones worth a shot:-

http://www.michael-letchford.com/blog/new-adobe-camera-raw-monochrome-profiles


A thoughtful evaluation, Michael. Persuasive conclusion. Just a year or so ago I was railing at the value of the Adobe subscription product. But extensive competitor testing (including DXO) and recent updates have led me to change my mind. Adobe is (at present) managing a mature product well, adding real value in areas such as profiles (and range-masking in LR).

Your example image is wonderful. Evidently a great camera+lens combination and a beautifully judged capture (as ever, in stuff you release). Processing adjustments always reduce the quality of the image. So this image must have been of outstanding quality in the first instance.

Best wishes,

P
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