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Author Topic: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone  (Read 2203 times)

Neil Williams

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Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« on: April 12, 2018, 03:25:34 pm »

Just wondering if anyone has managed to use a longer lens on the H6D than the HC300........anyone??

Neil
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BAB

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2018, 05:52:02 pm »

Ive seen guys with a 500mm V lens or old hassey lens I cant remember...what are you intending on shooting anyway?
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Frans Rutten

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 05:53:55 pm »

I do remember someone stacking two TC's and a HC 300...
Look here
In fact, it was an HTS and a TC
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Neil Williams

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 06:00:56 pm »

Ive seen guys with a 500mm V lens or old hassey lens I cant remember...what are you intending on shooting anyway?
I’m taking my H6D100c on Safari in September. I just bought a HC300 plus 1.7 TC especially for this trip........... I’m hoping that 321mm will be enough but already know it won’t as two years ago I shot 95% of my Safari at 600mm.
Saying that I really don’t mind if 321mm is enough or not,it’s all I have and at the end of the day I’m going to have a whole bunch of fun


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BobShaw

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2018, 06:03:57 pm »

I think it is a case of diminishing returns. If you use a long lens with converters then you are reducing the quality and finishing with something so unmanageable that you can't use it. Probably better to carry two cameras, one for long (a DSLR) and one short (MF).

I am reminded of the story a famous tog told me of being on safari in Burma or somewhere similar and a tiger came out and started to bite the tail of the elephant they were on. The only person who got a photograph of it was the non photographer because the pros all had a lens way too long.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 07:53:16 pm »

The AF of a D850 is so vastly superior on anything that moves that combined with a 400mm f2.8 (that is clearly sharper at f2.8 than the 300mm f4.5 + 1.7x at full aperture) and taking into account the 2+ stops extra light you will get... the absolute image quality is probably going to be similar (2 stops lower ISO) but focus much better.

Frankly, I would take the Nikon any day for long distance shooting.

The Hassy may make sense for the landscape part, but I would stitch with the Nikon instead for a more compact/more robust/cheaper/more rugged package.

My lens choice would be:
- 19mm T/S
- 28mm f1.4
- 55mm f1.5 Otus for stitching
- 70-200 f2.8 E FL
- 400mm f2.8 E FL + x1.4 III

Cheers,
Bernard

Neil Williams

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 08:09:20 pm »

The AF of a D850 is so vastly superior on anything that moves that combined with a 400mm f2.8 (that is clearly sharper at f2.8 than the 300mm f4.5 + 1.7x at full aperture) and taking into account the 2+ stops extra light you will get... the absolute image quality is probably going to be similar (2 stops lower ISO) but focus much better.

Frankly, I would take the Nikon any day for long distance shooting.

The Hassy may make sense for the landscape part, but I would stitch with the Nikon instead for a more compact/more robust/cheaper/more rugged package.

My lens choice would be:
- 19mm T/S
- 28mm f1.4
- 55mm f1.5 Otus for stitching
- 70-200 f2.8 E FL
- 400mm f2.8 E FL + x1.4 III

Cheers,
Bernard
Hi Bernard thanks for the feedback.
I have the D850 plus the latest 600mm f4 Nikon long lens. The 600mm lens is the lens that I used 2 years ago in Tanzania. The problem is I don’t want to use a Nikon I want to use my H6D100c.
I think at the end of the day I will have a lot of fun shooting my MF set up with the 300 plus TC........... absolutely there will be many pictures possibly missed due to the lack of focal length. But it doesn’t matter, as long as I have fun that’s all that matters
Neil


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 12:46:39 am »

Have fun then!

Cheers,
Bernard

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 02:26:21 am »

Hi,

Andy Biggs is a nature photographer who also organises photo safaris. He is known to have been using MFD on travel:

http://andybiggs.squarespace.com/the-global-photographer/2014/8/26/back-to-africa.html

Back in 2016 it seems he liked the Canon 5Ds, too:
http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/the-global-photographer/2015/12/24/2015-year-in-review.html

My understanding is that Andy Biggs shifted objects when going MFD, like larger subjects for the larger sensor. He also found the long lens + extender solution to be good.

I have checked out Hasselblad's MTF data on the 300/4.5, it is a good lens, but not as good as say Canon's best offerings and it doesn't allow AF with the 1.7X extender.

Hasselblad 300/4.5 MTF data is here: http://static.hasselblad.com/2014/11/hc300-v3_en.pdf

I looked at Canon data at Lensrentals: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/08/the-sort-of-great-400mm-shootout/

If you try to compare data between the two, Hasselblad measures at 10/20/40 lp/mm while Lensrentals shows 10/20/30/40/50 lp/mm, so you would compare the red/orange/blue lines with Hasselblad's data.

Reading MTF, it measures microcontrast at different resolutions. The rule is higher is better. Ther are two sets of curves, "tan" and "sag". If "tan" falls steeper than "sag" it often means that the lens has some residual chromatic aberration.

May definition of a good lens is that it maintains:

90% MTF at 10 lp/mm
80% MTF at 20 lp/mm
60% MTF at 40 lp/mm

Across the field and both for "tan" and "sag".

You could consider go the other way, and adding some say Olympus gear for the ultimate reach and also having as a backup, like the 12-100/4 combined with the 300/4.0 lens.

Best regards
Erik


Hi Bernard thanks for the feedback.
I have the D850 plus the latest 600mm f4 Nikon long lens. The 600mm lens is the lens that I used 2 years ago in Tanzania. The problem is I don’t want to use a Nikon I want to use my H6D100c.
I think at the end of the day I will have a lot of fun shooting my MF set up with the 300 plus TC........... absolutely there will be many pictures possibly missed due to the lack of focal length. But it doesn’t matter, as long as I have fun that’s all that matters
Neil


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Erik Kaffehr
 

Neil Williams

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2018, 05:18:22 am »

Hi,

Andy Biggs is a nature photographer who also organises photo safaris. He is known to have been using MFD on travel:

http://andybiggs.squarespace.com/the-global-photographer/2014/8/26/back-to-africa.html

Back in 2016 it seems he liked the Canon 5Ds, too:
http://www.theglobalphotographer.com/the-global-photographer/2015/12/24/2015-year-in-review.html

My understanding is that Andy Biggs shifted objects when going MFD, like larger subjects for the larger sensor. He also found the long lens + extender solution to be good.

I have checked out Hasselblad's MTF data on the 300/4.5, it is a good lens, but not as good as say Canon's best offerings and it doesn't allow AF with the 1.7X extender.

Hasselblad 300/4.5 MTF data is here: http://static.hasselblad.com/2014/11/hc300-v3_en.pdf

I looked at Canon data at Lensrentals: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/08/the-sort-of-great-400mm-shootout/

If you try to compare data between the two, Hasselblad measures at 10/20/40 lp/mm while Lensrentals shows 10/20/30/40/50 lp/mm, so you would compare the red/orange/blue lines with Hasselblad's data.

Reading MTF, it measures microcontrast at different resolutions. The rule is higher is better. Ther are two sets of curves, "tan" and "sag". If "tan" falls steeper than "sag" it often means that the lens has some residual chromatic aberration.

May definition of a good lens is that it maintains:

90% MTF at 10 lp/mm
80% MTF at 20 lp/mm
60% MTF at 40 lp/mm

Across the field and both for "tan" and "sag".

You could consider go the other way, and adding some say Olympus gear for the ultimate reach and also having as a backup, like the 12-100/4 combined with the 300/4.0 lens.

Best regards
Erik
Thanks Erik
Sounds way to complicated for me. I just like to go out and take pictures, if they look good I Print them or post them. If not I put them in the bin.
I’m just a roughneck that likes to take pictures and have fun.


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rogerxnz

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 02:53:39 am »

Pardon my ignorance, but assuming the Nikon has 50MP sensor, don’t you get similar images using a 600mm lens on the Nikon and using a 300mm lens on the Hasselblad 100MP sensor and cropping by 50%?

You would also have the advantage of the larger sensors and viewfinder on the Hasselblad setup and a nicer sounding mirror thump?
Roger
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Wellington, New Zealand

Neil Williams

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 08:20:29 am »

Pardon my ignorance, but assuming the Nikon has 50MP sensor, don’t you get similar images using a 600mm lens on the Nikon and using a 300mm lens on the Hasselblad 100MP sensor and cropping by 50%?

You would also have the advantage of the larger sensors and viewfinder on the Hasselblad setup and a nicer sounding mirror thump?
Roger
I think I am good with what I have just bought.........HC300mm plus HC1.7 TC :)
Hopefully I will have some nice pictures to show for it

Neil
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 03:01:08 pm »

Hi,

Your arithmetic is wrong.

The easiest way to see it is that the 600 mm lens projects an image twice the size the image projected by the 300 mm lens.

Let's assume the you shoot a lion so it fills the image with the 600 mm. So, it projects an 24x36 mm image. On the Nikon D850 that gives you 45.7 million usable pixels.

Now, you take the 300 mm, it will project an 12x18 mm image, regardless if you use 4/3, APS, 24x36 mm or 54x40 mm. So, on the Nikon D850 it will give 45.7 / 4 -> 11.4 million usable pixels.

Would you use it on a Panasonic G9, it would yield 20.3 million usable pixels.

If we shoot with a 100 MP digital back with 54x40 mm sensor size, the pixel size would be 4.6 microns, with the pixel area being 2.16e-5 square millimeter. That would give you 12x18/2.16e-5 -> 10 MP.

So, with a 300 mm lens, the best option would be the Panasonic G9. The reason for that is that with the 100MP back you would throw away 90% of the pixels and also 90% of the photons collected.

To add insult to injury, the 300 mm lens on that Panasonic would be optimized for the 12x18 mm format and be very sharp. The Hasselblad lens is optimized for a much larger format and it will not be very sharp.

But, you can zoom with your feet, that will change perspective, though and may also feed the lion.

Best regards
Erik



Pardon my ignorance, but assuming the Nikon has 50MP sensor, don’t you get similar images using a 600mm lens on the Nikon and using a 300mm lens on the Hasselblad 100MP sensor and cropping by 50%?

You would also have the advantage of the larger sensors and viewfinder on the Hasselblad setup and a nicer sounding mirror thump?
Roger
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Neil Williams

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 03:33:58 pm »

Hi,

Your arithmetic is wrong.

The easiest way to see it is that the 600 mm lens projects an image twice the size the image projected by the 300 mm lens.

Let's assume the you shoot a lion so it fills the image with the 600 mm. So, it projects an 24x36 mm image. On the Nikon D850 that gives you 45.7 million usable pixels.

Now, you take the 300 mm, it will project an 12x18 mm image, regardless if you use 4/3, APS, 24x36 mm or 54x40 mm. So, on the Nikon D850 it will give 45.7 / 4 -> 11.4 million usable pixels.

Would you use it on a Panasonic G9, it would yield 20.3 million usable pixels.

If we shoot with a 100 MP digital back with 54x40 mm sensor size, the pixel size would be 4.6 microns, with the pixel area being 2.16e-5 square millimeter. That would give you 12x18/2.16e-5 -> 10 MP.

So, with a 300 mm lens, the best option would be the Panasonic G9. The reason for that is that with the 100MP back you would throw away 90% of the pixels and also 90% of the photons collected.

To add insult to injury, the 300 mm lens on that Panasonic would be optimized for the 12x18 mm format and be very sharp. The Hasselblad lens is optimized for a much larger format and it will not be very sharp.

But, you can zoom with your feet, that will change perspective, though and may also feed the lion.

Best regards
Erik
Erik
Thanks for all the technical stuff, but at the end of the day I will have a H6D100c with HC300mm HC1.7 TC and I will have lots of fun :) :)

Neil
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Longer lens than the HC300 on a H6D.........anyone
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 03:53:08 pm »

Hi Neil,

I was trying to answer Roger...

But it is an interesting analysis to make.

I certainly hope you will have lots of fun!

Best regards
Erik


Erik
Thanks for all the technical stuff, but at the end of the day I will have a H6D100c with HC300mm HC1.7 TC and I will have lots of fun :) :)

Neil
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