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Author Topic: New iMac Pro Monitors  (Read 2475 times)

Chris L

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New iMac Pro Monitors
« on: March 25, 2018, 04:55:39 PM »

hi, I have a 2010 Mac Pro , 2 x 2.66 GHz 6 core Intel Xeon, 32 GB Ram, ATI radeon HD 5770 1 Gb Graphics card and it works fine for most things except 4k video. I use it with a NEC PA 241W monitor that is about 10 years old, but is calibrated every couple months with a color munki puck and software. I am thinking of getting the new iMac Pro or waiting for the rumored Mac Pro due to arrive 2018. The decisive factor will be the monitor; Am I better off getting the new iMac Pro and using its monitor OR am I better off waiting and then getting the new Mac Pro and using my old monitor. I don't really understand when my monitor 'goes bad'. It seems to work great, prints to my Epson 3800 match very well. And I don't understand how the monitor of the new iMac Pro compares to my current NEC monitor. FYI I don't print much, I just want the files I deliver to clients to look how I see them when they leave my workspace.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 11:13:15 AM by Chris L »
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Chris L

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2018, 10:17:56 AM »

 Now I hear the Mac Pro won’t come until 2019 so my new plan is to rebuild my current Mac Pro OR get new iMac pro. Can anyone answer my monitor question above?
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smthopr

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 11:55:58 AM »

Now I hear the Mac Pro won’t come until 2019 so my new plan is to rebuild my current Mac Pro OR get new iMac pro. Can anyone answer my monitor question above?

It's not clear from your question if you are delivering still photographs, or video content.  The display calibration for video will be different than the calibration you use for still photographs.  And, a Mac with built-in display may not be able to be calibrated to video standards.

So, what kind of work are you doing?  And, what software are you using to do it?
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digitaldog

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 01:01:24 PM »

Other than a wide gamut (DCP-P3 vs. Adobe RGB (1998) ) gamut which is rather small, there's nothing at all special about the Apple displays and no, they really can't hold a candle to the SpectraView line:



1. Nearly all if not all current SpectraView displays are wide gamut, Apple's and most other's are not (sRGB like gamut)
with the exception of the newer iMac DCI-P3 displays. But SpectraView can emulate sRGB with a push of a button. The new P3 iMac
cannot. Best of both worlds!
2.  SpectraView uses a high bit internal processing path (at least 10-bit) with internal 3D LUTs, many other's do not. These
high bit LUTs allow precise adjustments to be made to the display’s Tone Response Curve without reducing the number of
displayable colors or introducing color banding artifacts.
3. Newer NEC SpectraView's use GBr LED which produce far more precise control of White Point, run cooler, use less energy, run
far longer than CCFL.
4. SpectraView has 3-4 year on site warranty.
5. SpectraView panels are hand selected from the manufacturer line (pick of the litter).
6. SpectraView has electric technologies like ColorComp, which adjusts and improves screen (brightness) uniformity using
individually measured matrices for each display at the factory. All done high bit with compension for operating time and
temperature.
7. SpectraView has electric technologies like GammaComp, to adjust the monitor's internal 10-bit gamma Look-Up-Table, allowing
various custom display gamma or Tone-Response-Curves to be achieved. Apple and many other's don't have anything like this.
8. SpectraView is a smart display system that integrates custom software for calibration including multiple target
calibration's which can be loaded to adjust the display while loading the associated ICC profile, Apple (and few other
products aside from Eizo) cannot do this. To quote from the manual: “SpectraView communicates with the display monitors using
Display Data Channel - Command Interface (DDC/CI) which is a two-way communications link between the video graphics adapter
and display monitor using the normal video signal cable. No extra cables are necessary. All adjustments to the monitor
settings are done automatically using this communications link. It is not necessary to manually configure the monitor as all
of the necessary settings are made by the software“. Apple and other's has nothing like this, nor can 3rd party software you
have to pay for extra do this. This is an attribute built from the ground up in SpectraView to serve as a 'reference display
system' ala Barco, PressView, Sony Artisan of the past.
9. SpectraView will bundle a custom mated Colorimeter with their software for calibration. The price you pay for software and
colorimeter with the SpectraView, depending on what country you live in costs significantly less than buying the hardware and
software for a non SpectraView. And that extra money will not provide a fraction of the capabilities outlined.
10. SpectraView PA series offer the ability to calibrate WITHOUT a Colorimeter with the FREE Multiprofiler software since each
panel is measured with a very expensive spectroradiometer and that data is embedded in a chip in the panel. It can update the
calibration as the unit ages to ensure calibration.
11. SpectraView can emulate with a single click other behaviors, again on the fly, so it can simulate a non wide gamut display
(sRGB) among other standardized behaviors (Broadcast Video DICOM, etc)
12. SpectraView has internal electronic control over contrast ratio, few others can provide this control over black. Real
useful for soft proofing on media that has differing contrast ratio's (matt vs. glossy papers).
13. SpectraView has Network support (Windows only).
14. SpectraView has provisions to lock the display controls so no accidental alteration to behavior by mistake.
15. SpectraView displays allow the user to raise and lower the display for best viewing position AND it can be rotated 90
degrees for Portrait.
16. Several SpectraView's support Picture in Picture (you can have two differing calibration's per picture).




More differences in the two (PA vs. EA):
On the USB side, the PA272W has a 2 port KVM switch while the EA Series do not.
The PA272W has a backlight sensor to keep the brightness and white point stable; the EA Series do not.
The Picture Modes on the PA272W are infinitely customizable (with or without MultiProfiler), the EA Series are limited
The uniformity control on the PA272W is 5 levels (4 + off), the EA is on or off.
ColorComp = Uniformity control (on/off on EA, more advanced control on P/PA)
No 3D LUT on any EA model (only P and PA).
GammComp I'm told is outdated terminology.
Now a big difference; EA or other displays that doesn’t have a “SpectraView Engine” (color processor). What's that? In short it does:
1. Uniformity correction
2. Aging compensation
3. Temperature compensation
4. Orientation compensation
5. 3x 1D LUTs
6. 3D LUTs
7. Color gamut mapping
8. Gamma correction
9. Black level correction
10. Ambient light measurement and compensation
11. Backlight luminance measurement and stabilization
12. Picture-in-Picture / Picture-by-Picture
13. Color blindness simulation
14. Metamerism correction
15. Hue/Saturation/Offset adjustment
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Chris L

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 01:29:12 AM »

It's not clear from your question if you are delivering still photographs, or video content.  The display calibration for video will be different than the calibration you use for still photographs.  And, a Mac with built-in display may not be able to be calibrated to video standards.

So, what kind of work are you doing?  And, what software are you using to do it?

Thanks. I’m shooting both. Motion with a BM URSA Mini and using fcpx. And stills with canons an Sony’s and using C1 pro and Photoshop. Shooting doc films and Print Ads primarily.
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rdonson

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 10:36:16 AM »

All I can say is that I have the 27" 5K iMac (not Pro) with the DCI-P3 monitor.  It works fine for me on photos and video and I quite happy with it.  I calibrate the monitor with the x-rite i1Display Pro.   

Caveat:  I'm not a commercial photographer or videographer.  I print for myself and friends and my videos are only shared with a small group of people.  None of my work hangs in galleries.   

I use the latest versions of Lr and PS CC and FCP X 10.4 

I guess it depends on what your requirements are for a monitor and output.  I've seen a lot of pro videographers using the iMac Pro without any complaints.  I know a number of photographers who are also quite happy with the iMac DCI-P3 monitors.

For a print perfectionist there may be other monitors that are better for screen to print accuracy. 

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Ron

digitaldog

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 11:16:19 AM »

For a print perfectionist there may be other monitors that are better for screen to print accuracy.
For those soft proofing to multiple and different papers and printers where loading different calibration and ICC profiles (where calibration is part of the internal display), yeah, big difference with a display system I outlined. And none of this has anything to do with color accuracy but it does have a lot to do with color matching; two different subjects and attributes.
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Andrew Rodney
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rdonson

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 12:53:05 PM »

Thanks for clarifying, Andrew.
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Regards,
Ron

smthopr

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 03:55:28 PM »

Thanks. I’m shooting both. Motion with a BM URSA Mini and using fcpx. And stills with canons an Sony’s and using C1 pro and Photoshop. Shooting doc films and Print Ads primarily.

ok.  I don't think that there is anyway to calibrate a P3/wide gamut Mac display to REC709 which is the video standard. P3 is only used for cinema right now. Video apps are not color managed like photoshop, though it's possible that FCPX is.  Even if you use FCPX, you may still end up delivering your video in P3 color space and it will look undersaturated on an sRGB display or home TV.

So I think you are best served by having an external display calibrated to REC709 for your video work.  I think the NEC suggested by Andrew can work well, but it may have frame rate limitations when working in video and I'm not sure if that will be an issue for you, so check it out.

There is also the whole issue of computer color management that can throw you off base if you're not really careful.  Especially on a Mac which has system wide color management.  And any video playing on a quicktime player is always suspect for incorrect color.  Generally we use a video output card/device such as a decklink from Blackmagic or AJA output card to send the video to the display bypassing any systemwide color management.  I'm not sure if Blackmagic devices work with fcpx, so you'll need to check.  There are thunderbolt devices for this that cost only $150.  If you are working in HD video (not 4k) there is an AJA thunderbolt device called the "T tap" that does this as well.  I have one that I don't use anymore, and if you'd like it, I'd sell it to you :)

For my setup, I'm using an Eizo display calibrated to REC709 and the video comes through a decklink device and all is well.  The Eizo is rather similar to the NEC displays that Andrew wrote about.
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Chris L

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 01:47:43 PM »

Thanks guys, I will stick with my NEC display and just wait for Mac Pro in 2019. Now a brief trip off topic;  My Mac is fine for Stills but struggles with 4k video footage from my Ursa Mini 4.6k and Canon 5Dmk4. Using FCPx. Would a new video card/graphics card be an inexpensive 'patch' for now? Current one is the ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB and as a reminder I am on a 2010 mac pro 6 core with 32 GB Ram.
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Chris L

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 05:29:58 PM »

Thanks guys, I will stick with my NEC display and just wait for Mac Pro in 2019. Now a brief trip off topic;  My Mac is fine for Stills but struggles with 4k video footage from my Ursa Mini 4.6k and Canon 5Dmk4. Using FCPx. Would a new video card/graphics card be an inexpensive 'patch' for now? Current one is the ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB and as a reminder I am on a 2010 mac pro 6 core with 32 GB Ram.

any comments regarding my question on video card above would be appreciated. thanks.
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D Fuller

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2018, 05:53:10 PM »

Thanks guys, I will stick with my NEC display and just wait for Mac Pro in 2019. Now a brief trip off topic;  My Mac is fine for Stills but struggles with 4k video footage from my Ursa Mini 4.6k and Canon 5Dmk4. Using FCPx. Would a new video card/graphics card be an inexpensive 'patch' for now? Current one is the ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB and as a reminder I am on a 2010 mac pro 6 core with 32 GB Ram.

Yes. A new video card with substantially more ram is likely to help a lot. Since you’re using FCP-X, I think you will do better to stay in the ATI camp, as I believe Apple is better-optimized for open CL, and that ATI is better at open CL than Nvidia. But you should also look at disk speeds for bottlenecks. Especially if you’re using cinema DNG, the data rates are very high, and it’s easy to get bottlenecked by sub-optimal drive setups.
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Chris L

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 11:05:50 AM »

Yes. A new video card with substantially more ram is likely to help a lot. Since you’re using FCP-X, I think you will do better to stay in the ATI camp, as I believe Apple is better-optimized for open CL, and that ATI is better at open CL than Nvidia. But you should also look at disk speeds for bottlenecks. Especially if you’re using cinema DNG, the data rates are very high, and it’s easy to get bottlenecked by sub-optimal drive setups.

Thanks. I am not shooting raw (cinema DNG) video fyi. I am going to price out doubling the Ram and an ATI video card.
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vampire

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2018, 03:19:59 PM »

Getting more ram and a better video card will help, but probably not as much as getting a 10 core iMac pro. I'm in the same boat as you and already did the upgrades a while ago. I bought the Titan X card which was pretty expensive. But if you get the card from a place that you can return it, you can atleast test out the speed difference, to see if it's enough. If it's not, then you have a decision to make. If the mac pro comes in early 2019 then it's easier to wait, but who knows when it will actually be out. It may be better to get an iMac pro and then sell it once the mac pro eventually comes out once you know all the specs. Assuming the MacBook pro gets a 6-core upgrade in june at wwdc, I may get one of those and use that until the mac pro comes out. And throw my titan x in an external egpu enclosure for added umph when i'm working from home.
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robcrandall2

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2018, 08:33:41 AM »

Andrew Rodney kindly detailed the NEC SPECTRAVIEW monitors. Thank you Andrew.

I would like to replace my 11-year-old Apple 30" Cinema Display with:
NEC PA302W-BK-SV 30" Spectraview II monitor (with hood).
(Will use with Lightroom and 2013 MacPro OS v10.13.4, 64GB memory, Graphics AMD FirePro D500, for editing and printing stills)
QUESTIONS: When was the NEC PA302W first released and will it be updated any time soon? Does it remain an excellent choice today? Is it possible to predict its lifespan (with daily use)? In other words, about how long will it last for critical work?

thanks for advice,
Rob
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Czornyj

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2018, 08:55:52 AM »

Andrew Rodney kindly detailed the NEC SPECTRAVIEW monitors. Thank you Andrew.

I would like to replace my 11-year-old Apple 30" Cinema Display with:
NEC PA302W-BK-SV 30" Spectraview II monitor (with hood).
(Will use with Lightroom and 2013 MacPro OS v10.13.4, 64GB memory, Graphics AMD FirePro D500, for editing and printing stills)
QUESTIONS: When was the NEC PA302W first released and will it be updated any time soon? Does it remain an excellent choice today? Is it possible to predict its lifespan (with daily use)? In other words, about how long will it last for critical work?

thanks for advice,
Rob

PA302W was announced in 2013, and still remains excellent choice today. There's no update of this display on the horizon.
PA322UHD2 (that I personally use) has higher resolution that gives much more comfort, better uniformity, and better black impression thanks to OCF (Optical Compensation Film) - see attached image with comparison to my former 3090WQXi on the left.
Both use LED backlight, so should run flawlessly for decades (at least 50.000h)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 08:59:11 AM by Czornyj »
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robcrandall2

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2018, 11:05:51 AM »

Czornyj,
Thanks for the great advice. Very helpful.
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Rob Reiter

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2018, 03:18:48 PM »

PA302W was announced in 2013, and still remains excellent choice today. There's no update of this display on the horizon.
PA322UHD2 (that I personally use) has higher resolution that gives much more comfort, better uniformity, and better black impression thanks to OCF (Optical Compensation Film) - see attached image with comparison to my former 3090WQXi on the left.
Both use LED backlight, so should run flawlessly for decades (at least 50.000h)

As much as I would love to buy a new PA series SpectraView, my 8 or 9 year old NEC 3090WQXi is still so good, I can't (yet) justify a new monitor. So, yeah, a five year old PA model is probably just fine...
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Rajan Parrikar

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2018, 01:39:06 PM »

Getting more ram and a better video card will help, but probably not as much as getting a 10 core iMac pro.

Yes, the iMac Pro 10-core, 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, Radeon Vega 64 is the sweet spot for photographers who also do video on the side.

Matricola

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Re: New iMac Pro Monitors
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 10:06:08 AM »

[edit: post deleted by moderator]
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 03:41:13 AM by Jeremy Roussak »
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