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Author Topic: Few m43 questions  (Read 3320 times)

armand

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Few m43 questions
« on: February 25, 2018, 04:34:26 PM »

1. Did you notice the 20MP sensor to be significantly better than the 16MP?

2. Are there still issues with the Pana lenses on a Oly body? There was some purple in some shots among others.

I'll be in Europe in April and I will likely encounter rain, at least in England and I don't want to worry about it that much so I'm tempted to take the m43 system with at least the 12-100. I already have the E-M5ii but wonder if the E-M1ii will provide some extra benefits (besides 2 SD cards and better handling).
Also on the extra wide I only have the Rokinon  7.5mm fisheye and I should get something more versatile. The Pana 8-18 F2.8-4 looks the most appealing, the Oly 7-14 F2.8 is a little too heavy and large with a bulbous front element, more difficult to protect from the rain.

Telecaster

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2018, 04:56:50 PM »

1. No. The 20mp sensor (in my GX8) is "better" in that it resolves a smidge more detail than the GX7's 16mp chip with no apparent noise or DR penalty. But no big deal overall.

2. I never had any issues using Pany lenses on Oly bodies, aside from a known banding thing with the 20mm on the E-M5 and E-M1. Can't tell you about newer stuff, though, as I no longer have any Oly cameras.

-Dave-
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HSakols

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2018, 07:53:06 PM »

I use Olympus bodies with the Panasonic 12-35 2.8  with no problems. 
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bluekorn

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 10:01:24 AM »

Iím curious to know experiences if we flip Armandís second question. Are there any issues using Panasonic bodies with Olympus lenses? Iím considering the new Oly 12-100 for use on my GX8. Thanks.
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Telecaster

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2018, 04:17:52 PM »

I use the 12/2 & 75/1.8 Olympus lenses on my GX8 without issues. I know some recent lenses that support dual lens/body stabilization don't do so, though, if you "mismatch" brands.

-Dave-
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armand

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 05:55:53 PM »

Iím curious to know experiences if we flip Armandís second question. Are there any issues using Panasonic bodies with Olympus lenses? Iím considering the new Oly 12-100 for use on my GX8. Thanks.

A valid question.
For me the reason to stay with Olympus is to use the Dual-IS but that's about it and this is only with the 12-100 F4. The 12-100 however is the ideal backpacking lens for a landscape photographer. Unfortunately beside it and Oly 12-40 F2.8 all the other Oly WR lenses went into a weight gain regimen and are less suited. Yes, they remain lighter than a full frame but I think Panasonic with their F2.8-4 lens range gets it. They are WR, very close performance wise to the Oly PRO and significantly lighter while you lose a stop at the long end which is an acceptable compromise in my book. The 8-18, 12-60 and the rumored 50-200 have a huge range for a small weight. I can foresee a backpacking kit with these 3 lenses. My problem on Pana is that the G9 is a little too big; I can put up with the increase to E-M1ii size from my E-M5ii size but the G9 is pushing it. I've handled for a brief period a Pana GX85 (I think) with the Oly 12-40 and wasn't that impressed by the ergonomics. Focus was faster through.

degrub

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 06:41:38 PM »

i don't know if it makes any difference to you in this situation, but don't forget that Panasonic applies, on many of their lenses, significant lens optical corrections in software on camera and on import into Lightroom (if you use it) via the lens profile.
Olympus does some as well, but they appear to focus more on optical correction, particularly in the "pro" series.
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armand

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 07:04:00 PM »

I think both are equally bad.
Oly 12-40 has "only"  8.5% barrel distortion at 12mm, Oly 12-100 has 6.9% and Pana 12-60 has 6.2%. Overall pretty disappointing.

Telecaster

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 03:55:21 PM »

I think both are equally bad.
Oly 12-40 has "only" 8.5% barrel distortion at 12mm, Oly 12-100 has 6.9% and Pana 12-60 has 6.2%. Overall pretty disappointing.

But the distortion is allowed by intent, with the assumption it'll be corrected via software. It simplifies the optical designs, reducing costs and (likely) bulk.

-Dave-
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armand

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 04:27:29 PM »

But the distortion is allowed by intent, with the assumption it'll be corrected via software. It simplifies the optical designs, reducing costs and (likely) bulk.

-Dave-

Yes, most of the mirrorless lenses are designed this way and it's a fact of life albeit it remains disappointing.
This does make you wonder if DSLR lenses would cut few more corners will the size difference become significantly smaller?

Denis de Gannes

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 05:06:51 PM »

But the distortion is allowed by intent, with the assumption it'll be corrected via software. It simplifies the optical designs, reducing costs and (likely) bulk.

-Dave-

If you researched the system prior to investing in micro four thirds you would be aware of the design. I personally waited over two years before finally deciding if to move from the original four thirds system to micro four thirds. In the early days Panasonic criticised Adobe when they claimed to support one of their early model cameras without applying the lens correction contained in the raw file header. Adobe subsequently started to apply the lens correction. Jpeg images produced without the lens correction applied are sub-standard. 
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Telecaster

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 07:29:02 PM »

Yes, most of the mirrorless lenses are designed this way and it's a fact of life albeit it remains disappointing.
This does make you wonder if DSLR lenses would cut few more corners will the size difference become significantly smaller?

Maybe some of the wider D-SLR lenses could become smaller. It's not about cutting corners so much as just incorporating software adjustment into the designs. The tech is thereÖwhy not embrace it? If you design to allow your barreling or pincushioning to be smooth & even, for one thing you get rid of funky moustache distortion.

-Dave-
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armand

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2018, 07:43:43 PM »

Maybe some of the wider D-SLR lenses could become smaller. It's not about cutting corners so much as just incorporating software adjustment into the designs. The tech is thereÖwhy not embrace it? If you design to allow your barreling or pincushioning to be smooth & even, for one thing you get rid of funky moustache distortion.

-Dave-

I'm guessing this would lead to even less sharp corners? Not to mention the extreme vignetting that some of these lenses have. At base ISO no big deal but as the ISO goes up so does the noise in the corners when the vignetting is corrected.

Denis de Gannes

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2018, 08:06:32 PM »

I'm guessing this would lead to even less sharp corners? Not to mention the extreme vignetting that some of these lenses have. At base ISO no big deal but as the ISO goes up so does the noise in the corners when the vignetting is corrected.
The profiles are there to correct all the issues you are referring to, technology designed to offer improved performance.
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armand

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2018, 09:55:48 PM »

That I know. My point was that correction of those flaws is lossy.

Eg. You have 3EV vignetting. You shoot at ISO 800. Fully correcting the vignetting leads to the ISO in the corners to be 6400.

Mousecop

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2018, 06:50:28 PM »

1. Did you notice the 20MP sensor to be significantly better than the 16MP?

Nope.


Quote
2. Are there still issues with the Pana lenses on a Oly body? There was some purple in some shots among others.

That only happens with two very early lenses (P7-14 and maybe one other lens).


Quote
I'll be in Europe in April and I will likely encounter rain, at least in England and I don't want to worry about it that much so I'm tempted to take the m43 system with at least the 12-100....

The 12-100 is an outstanding lens, the IS is ridiculously great. However, I found it to be a bit heavy. If I used that lens, it would be the only lens I'd bring (except perhaps a prime as backup).

One possible lineup:
8-18
25mm f/1.8 prime
40-150 f/4-5.6

Or, you could just go for the classic...
12mm
25mm
45mm
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Mousecop

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2018, 07:04:09 PM »

That I know. My point was that correction of those flaws is lossy.

Eg. You have 3EV vignetting. You shoot at ISO 800. Fully correcting the vignetting leads to the ISO in the corners to be 6400.
The only loss is with vignetting -- and that often happens with optically corrected lenses anyway.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't know any M43 lens that loses 3EV (before corrections). The 12-100 is pretty bad, but even that is 1.8EV when at 12mm; the other focal lengths are 0.5EV or less. That's comparable to the vignetting issues of the new Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 ED VR.

Independent lens testers will check sharpness with the corrections applied, and the better-quality M43 lenses show excellent sharpness corner-to-corner at apertures f/8 and wider.

Even high-end Zeiss lenses for Sony FE now incorporates software corrections. As long as the final results meet your criteria, I don't see any reason to worry about it.
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armand

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2018, 07:47:26 PM »

Nope.


That only happens with two very early lenses (P7-14 and maybe one other lens).


The 12-100 is an outstanding lens, the IS is ridiculously great. However, I found it to be a bit heavy. If I used that lens, it would be the only lens I'd bring (except perhaps a prime as backup).

One possible lineup:
8-18
25mm f/1.8 prime
40-150 f/4-5.6

Or, you could just go for the classic...
12mm
25mm
45mm

I only have the 17 F1.8 and 45 F1.8 Considering how light they are I will likely bring both.
Wider however I only have the manual focus Rokinon 7.5 mm F 3.5. I could use it or get the 8-18 or shot 2-3 shots pano at 12mm.

Mousecop

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2018, 07:48:51 PM »

I only have the 17 F1.8 and 45 F1.8 Considering how light they are I will likely bring both.
Wider however I only have the manual focus Rokinon 7.5 mm F 3.5. I could use it or get the 8-18 or shot 2-3 shots pano at 12mm.
Can you rent any of these lenses, either before or for the trip?
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armand

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Re: Few m43 questions
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2018, 09:50:05 PM »

Can you rent any of these lenses, either before or for the trip?

Sorry I wasn't clear enough, from the primes I only have to 7.5, 17 and 45. On the zoom side I have the Oly 12-40 F2.8, Oly 12-100 F4 and Pana 35-100 F2.8
Renting something wider might be an option.
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