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Author Topic: Sony RX10IV user impressions?  (Read 8035 times)

petermfiore

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2018, 11:10:17 AM »

The differences in the Sony's ability to focus (how well, quickly etc) and that of my 5DMII is night and day. Tack sharp focus of shots taken quickly are superior to soft shots no matter the sensor. So in a week of shooting with the Sony, just the focusing capabilities have blown me away FROM my Canon. Now that's an old Canon, maybe newer products compare with the Sony.
What I HATE: it eats through batteries. That small battery is a joke; you need to carry around 3-6 of them for even half a day shooting.

Hi Andrew,

I got myself one of these to get around the poor battery life. Fairly light and you plug it into the side port on the Sony and have power for days. You need to keep a battery in the camera as well. It will keep the battery charged all day. I wear it in an inside pocket.



Peter
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 11:18:57 AM by petermfiore »
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digitaldog

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2018, 11:21:52 AM »

Hi Andrew,

I got myself one of these to get around the poor battery life. Fairly light and you plug it into the side port on the Sony and have power for days. You need to keep a battery in the camera as well. It will keep the battery charged all day. I wear it in an inside pocket.
Neat, thanks.
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petermfiore

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2018, 11:44:58 AM »

Neat, thanks.

Your welcome. An added advantage in winter, the battery stays warm...

Peter

luxborealis

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2018, 06:28:12 PM »

I, too, am rather late to the party. I hope things worked for you NancyP, even though you chose not to g9 the Sony route.

I wrote one of the early reviews in the RX-10iii for Lu-La and for Light and Landscape magazine. After two trips to Iceland, four weeks in the UK and a trip to Galápagos, I am still excited by the images I get from it. No, they don’t stand up to a 1:1 comparison on screen, but that’s so far from reality, it’s ridiculous. In prints up to 13x19, I defy anyone to “spot the difference” at normal viewing distance or even arms length. Even a 16x20 looks great on the wall. You see, that’s where the comparisons must be made. I’ve shot 35mm, 6x7, 4x5, 4/3s and Still shoot some FF with my D800E. Yes, there’s a difference, but not on the wall as a framed print.

More importantly, the camera can hang on my shoulder all day, with zero fatigue. Add to that no dust, every focal length from 24mm to 600mm (can you imagine a 600/4!!!) and a great feel in my hand with Exp. Comp. right there at my thumb, and all’s well with the world.
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Ray

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2018, 09:31:02 PM »

I, too, am rather late to the party. I hope things worked for you NancyP, even though you chose not to g9 the Sony route.

I wrote one of the early reviews in the RX-10iii for Lu-La and for Light and Landscape magazine. After two trips to Iceland, four weeks in the UK and a trip to Galápagos, I am still excited by the images I get from it. No, they don’t stand up to a 1:1 comparison on screen, but that’s so far from reality, it’s ridiculous. In prints up to 13x19, I defy anyone to “spot the difference” at normal viewing distance or even arms length. Even a 16x20 looks great on the wall. You see, that’s where the comparisons must be made. I’ve shot 35mm, 6x7, 4x5, 4/3s and Still shoot some FF with my D800E. Yes, there’s a difference, but not on the wall as a framed print.

More importantly, the camera can hang on my shoulder all day, with zero fatigue. Add to that no dust, every focal length from 24mm to 600mm (can you imagine a 600/4!!!) and a great feel in my hand with Exp. Comp. right there at my thumb, and all’s well with the world.

Of course, the argument that a particular camera produces image quality sufficient for a certain size print, goes back to the early days of this site when Michael reviewed the first Canon digital camera, the 3 mp D30, which could produce A4 size prints equal to any full-frame 35mm film camera.

However, if you raised the print size to A3, the film image had the edge, but that edge disappeared when the 6 mp D60 was released.

I'm still using an Epson 7600 which produces 24" wide prints from a roll of paper. My concern is, if I were to capture a spectacular shot at 600 mm with the Sony RX10 4, and decided it deserved a 24"x36" print, would the image quality be close enough to the quality I would have got if I'd shot the same scene with a Nikon D7200 using my Nikkor 80-400 zoom at 400mm, also equivalent to 600 mm full-frame?
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petermfiore

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2018, 10:11:37 PM »


Ray,

Look at post #30 on this thread...It's a photo I posted from the 600mm end of the RX10 IV Zoom.

Peter

Ray

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2018, 07:58:29 AM »

Ray,

Look at post #30 on this thread...It's a photo I posted from the 600mm end of the RX10 IV Zoom.

Peter,
I have, and it's a very impressive image for ISO 2500. However, the image is only 3.2 MB. On my monitor, in Photoshop, that translates to an 8" x 12" size at 100%. How would the full size image look at, say, 24" x 36"? Downsizing a 60 MB image (in 8 bit) to 3.2 MB will definitely improve the quality. Even certain iPhone images could look impressive at that size.
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petermfiore

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2018, 08:37:32 AM »

Peter,
I have, and it's a very impressive image for ISO 2500. However, the image is only 3.2 MB. On my monitor, in Photoshop, that translates to an 8" x 12" size at 100%. How would the full size image look at, say, 24" x 36"? Downsizing a 60 MB image (in 8 bit) to 3.2 MB will definitely improve the quality. Even certain iPhone images could look impressive at that size.

Hi Ray,

24"x36" I think would be pushing it...if your looking at the print super close up. However for my needs it's perfect. I'm using this camera for gathering reference materials for my Paintings. My images are only viewed on my monitor. In this environment I have more info than I need.

Peter

Ray

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2018, 09:20:16 AM »

Hi Ray,

24"x36" I think would be pushing it...if your looking at the print super close up. However for my needs it's perfect. I'm using this camera for gathering reference materials for my Paintings. My images are only viewed on my monitor. In this environment I have more info than I need.

Peter

Hi Peter,
Okay! I understand. For your purposes the RX10 Mk4 seems ideal. Can you show any 100% crops of a detailed image at a lower ISO, say 100 or 200, shot at 600 mm equivalence, so I can see if the feathers of a bird or the texture of a leaf, for example, are impressively sharp?
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eronald

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2018, 04:23:13 PM »

Of course, the argument that a particular camera produces image quality sufficient for a certain size print, goes back to the early days of this site when Michael reviewed the first Canon digital camera, the 3 mp D30, which could produce A4 size prints equal to any full-frame 35mm film camera.

However, if you raised the print size to A3, the film image had the edge, but that edge disappeared when the 6 mp D60 was released.

I'm still using an Epson 7600 which produces 24" wide prints from a roll of paper. My concern is, if I were to capture a spectacular shot at 600 mm with the Sony RX10 4, and decided it deserved a 24"x36" print, would the image quality be close enough to the quality I would have got if I'd shot the same scene with a Nikon D7200 using my Nikkor 80-400 zoom at 400mm, also equivalent to 600 mm full-frame?

Ray,

If you really want crisp 36x24" prints you need to go considerably upmarket to at least 40MP fullframe with a very good lens. I used to run a P45+ back and so I know that for sure. At some points you need pixels, the RX10 series simply doesn't have them.

Edmund
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Ray

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2018, 07:29:13 PM »

Ray,

If you really want crisp 36x24" prints you need to go considerably upmarket to at least 40MP fullframe with a very good lens. I used to run a P45+ back and so I know that for sure. At some points you need pixels, the RX10 series simply doesn't have them.

Edmund

Hi Edmund,
For me it's about not being disappointed when comparing the results from my new camera with what I'm used to. We each have our own standards. My standards of resolution and sharpness are not as high as some photographers. For example, I'm generally satisfied with the quality of my AF-S Nikkor 80-400 F4.5/5.6 G ED zoom.

Whilst I would appreciate the extra quality from an expensive 400 mm/F2.8 telephoto prime, I've been willing to sacrifice the enjoyment of that extra quality from the beginning, because I consider the benefits of the greater flexibility of a zoom lens, as well as the much lower cost and much lower weight, to be of greater significance for my type of photography and my economic circumstances as an amateur.

Whenever I upgrade my equipment, I don't wish to discover later that I've taken two steps forward in some respects, but two steps backwards in other respects.

At present I get my 600 mm reach using the Nikkor 80-400 with the 24 mp Nikon D5300 which I'm thinking of upgrading to the D7200. However, the Sony RX10-Mk4 would be significantly lighter as well as more flexible because of its much wider focal lengths.

I bought the cheap D5300 whist overseas, as a temporary replacement for my D800E which I accidentally dropped in the ocean. None of the shops at the location had a D7200 in stock, which I would have preferred. The D5300 has the disadvantage of no AF fine-tune feature. Fortunately, the Nikkor 80-400 auto-focuses accurately with the camera, but certain other lenses don't.
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nigeldh

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2018, 02:24:20 PM »

Good comments, I am wondering if I should buy one now, or wait until the fall when the next model may be available - add UHS-II memory card slot, LCD that flips for viewing from the front. I already have a Sony A7R II, so I have extra batteries. I use my A9 with the 24-240mm when I need a traveling one camera & one lens set-up. Otherwise the A9 has the Sony 100-400mm on it, often with 1.4x tele converter for extra reach.
What hasn't been mentioned - converting this camera for full spectrum then keeping a hot mirror filter on it during general photography. Then, with a couple of IR & UV filters, one would have an "all in one" high still frame rate, video capable, super zoom camera.
I had my FZ1000 converted last spring. But there are times that carrying two cameras is too much.
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luxborealis

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2018, 11:06:30 PM »

My concern is, if I were to capture a spectacular shot at 600 mm with the Sony RX10 4, and decided it deserved a 24"x36" print, would the image quality be close enough to the quality I would have got if I'd shot the same scene with a Nikon D7200 using my Nikkor 80-400 zoom at 400mm, also equivalent to 600 mm full-frame?

There is no doubt in my mind that the D7200 with a Nikkor 80-400 @ 400 would provide a superior image on screen, given the larger pixels of the D7200, but that kit will also set you back TWICE as much in cost and TWICE as heavy in weight (or more), plus an additional lens to cover down to 24mm.

HOWEVER...
  -  would you get twice the quality? No.
  -  would you get a noticeably superior print viewed from arms length (which is closer than normal for a large print)? Probably not.
  -  would you be as comfortable carrying it around all day? Probably not.
  -  would you be able to hand hold it and get the same results as the superb OIS in the Sony? Perhaps, but my guess is no.
  -  would you spend more time cleaning the sensor and dust spots? Definitely yes.
  -  would the photos from the Sony be more than useful for 99% of the shots you take? Yes, after all, how many 24x36” prints are you really making use of? of course, if you are a pro, regularly selling 24x36” prints, then perhaps the Nikkor system is the way to go, but I have my doubts.

The point I’m making is two-fold:
  -  equipment available to the average photo consumer (even for the ardent enthusiast who is not a pro) has far more quality than they would ever need to be completely successful at what they are doing, unless their goal in life is to produce a large number of very large prints;
  -  I have visually engaging, highly successful 16x20” prints on my wall made with a 2002 Minolta Dimage 7 that had a 5mp sensor.

I’m going to throw out a controversial statement which some might find offensive, but, frankly I am tired of the “bigger is better attitude” so prevalent in pixel-peeping world of modern photography... 

“Bigger” may make a great number of photographers feel better about themselves, but it is no guarantee of higher quality.
 

Use what you like, but the vast majority of DSLR camera sales are being made to people who will never make use of the quality inherent in the system and many, I would suggest, would do just as well with a dual lens phone camera. I would even suggest that many do not continue to photograph with the DSLR they bought exactly because they are unable to get the quality from it they were promised or find it too inconvenient to use.

We are no longer comparing Instamatics to SLRs. The gap between perceived need and quality is continuing to shrink as I prove to myself almost everyday with my iPhone.

But I’ll shut up now.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2018, 11:44:20 PM »

Please don’t, Terry. Your comments and experience are extremely valuable.

I too have some great stuff on my walls from 5MP cameras, so I know whereof you speak. This camera makes a whole lot of sense.

In a Mark V I’d like the intervalometer restored, please. And the built-in ND filter. And an RF remote. 

Then, I’m in. :)
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Ray

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2018, 10:59:01 AM »

There is no doubt in my mind that the D7200 with a Nikkor 80-400 @ 400 would provide a superior image on screen, given the larger pixels of the D7200, but that kit will also set you back TWICE as much in cost and TWICE as heavy in weight (or more), plus an additional lens to cover down to 24mm.

Your argument is fine for anybody who doesn't already own superior equipment. If I were still using my original 5D, and was reasonable satisfied with the image quality, and therefore hadn't bothered to upgrade, the Sony RX10-4 would be irresistible because of its greater flexibility and lower weight without any loss of image quality, except perhaps in SNR at 18%. (I'll have to wait for DXOMark to conduct its tests).  ;)

However, I already own a Nikkor 80-400 and a Nikkor 14-24mm wide angle zoom. The cost of a D7200 is around $1,000 Aussie dollars. The cost of a Sony RX10-4 is around $2,400.
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digitaldog

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2018, 11:48:11 AM »

Just came back from a business trip, 2 half days in LA to shoot with the new camera. Took 595 shots, deleted only 30! Pretty amazed at the quality of the auto focus. Anything soft or out gets tossed so 30 is amazingly low for me compared to shooting with the Canon (with what lens?). I think I shot a few at max zoom but Lightroom reports the mm at 186.64, not sure what's up with that metadata. All the Canon 5DMII stuff is in the closet, going to take a dog road trip this weekend and that will be the real test. But so far, I can't fathom taking the Canon out of the closet much!
Edit: Max 220mm seems to appear in LR. It's not bad, needs a bit of additional capture sharpening in LR.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 11:58:33 AM by andrewrodney »
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nigeldh

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Re: Sony RX10IV user impressions?
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2018, 01:43:52 PM »

luxborealis, Well put. The 80/20 rule we talk about in computer systems, other areas. One gets the initial 80% for 20% of the effort or cost. It is that last 20% that really takes effort or runs up the final cost.
My couple of thoughts:
1. DSLR vs mirrorless - totally silent shooting when needed. No black-out - even when switching between an A9 and an A7RII the black-out taking getting used to.
2. 600mm - to get this with my A9 or A7RII I either have to have a tele converter, lose 1.4 stops exposure, or switch to APS-C mode, so my A7RII is now A9 resolution, or RX10IV resolution.
3. Amazing frame rate - not just 20 JPG images per minute but over 200 of them. Even 100 in uncompressed RAW.
4. Sure battery life may be a wart. But those of us with an A7 already have extra batteries in that size. Plus, as some folks have pointed out, you should probably be carrying a USB power pack for your phone or tablet. Probably also carry a charging cable hydra so you can charge iPhones with their non-standard connectors.

I suspect it will not be that long before software gets around some of the resolution issues especially with "softer" landscape images vs drawings or manuscripts with their hard lines.
Also pixel peeping a famous painting gives a completely different experience than viewing it at a distance.
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