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Author Topic: Lightroom 7.1  (Read 6653 times)

john beardsworth

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 03:14:19 PM »

Clearly one can see the value of the code learning from one's own style, assuming one can be discerned. But should learning from the user really be prioritised over the aggregated wisdom of Adobe's photographers? Maybe in your case the latter can't make you question how you've always used the sliders, but do you really think that's generally the case?

rdonson

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 03:25:36 PM »

Butch, circumstances dictate the use of the Auto button for many folks.  I don't think it's a panacea for anyone.  For me it could be a time saver.  I will use it when I'm going through 1600-2000 sports photos from a game.  I will use it to get me close to a good looking photo, tweak it a bit to taste and then apply those settings to the rest of the photos with similar lighting.  It will save me a LOT of time in post processing.  Especially if I'm tired.

Do I use Auto on my landscape work?  Rarely. 

Do I use some of the wonderful automation features in my camera?  You betcha.  Shooting totally manual in my camera has its place and time but that's a rare instance and usually in challenging conditions.  I love Auto ISO, continuous AF, Zone AF, etc. when appropriate.
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Ron

john beardsworth

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2017, 03:35:16 PM »

The question is Ron, will you now use Auto more, or even much more, for those landscape photos than in the past? It's worth trying, because you might just do so.

ButchM

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2017, 03:49:50 PM »

For me it could be a time saver.  I will use it when I'm going through 1600-2000 sports photos from a game.  I will use it to get me close to a good looking photo, tweak it a bit to taste and then apply those settings to the rest of the photos with similar lighting.  It will save me a LOT of time in post processing.  Especially if I'm tired.

Exactly, sifting through several hundred to several thousand sports images is the bulk of my work day for any day that ends in the letter 'y' ... What I am suggesting that the machine learning auto could be more of a modified preset that takes into account the relative nature of an image based upon the existing data already on hand that the end user performed earlier that day, that week, that month (or past decades) right in the same or similar venue under similar lighting conditions. All the crowd sourcing data in the world is likely to have no better knowledge or feel for that circumstance than the user with their feet on the ground at that location.

It's not that I don't appreciate or have respect for the efforts and talents of others ... but many other end users are not without their own set of accrued skills and there is a wealth of potential individualized machine learning already on hand. Otherwise, if we just want to emulate what others are doing, we may as well shoot and offer SOOC jpegs and be done with it.
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jrsforums

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2017, 04:22:06 PM »

In fact, some days, I did. Depended which bust stop I chose to use on the way home. 😀

That aside ... how do you feel about a machine learning 'auto' setting that is based upon your personal past works vs what total strangers think your images should look like? We've already had over a decade of the latter, all I am saying is I find the former would be more beneficial and efficient to my workflow.

Itís a frigging starting point.  If you donít like it, start from Ďzeroí.  Your choice.  Not worth complaining about.
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rdonson

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2017, 04:40:32 PM »

The question is Ron, will you now use Auto more, or even much more, for those landscape photos than in the past? It's worth trying, because you might just do so.

I'm just starting to go through some night time photos from Brookgreen Gardens (South Carolina) "Nights of a Thousand Candles".  Tricky shooting to say the least.  As the title of the show indicates there are over 1,000 candles and more strings of LED lights than I thought existed.  It's a dazzling display and gob smacking beautiful in person.  I bracketed shots and I'm using "Auto" on these to see what happens. 

So far "Auto" is working out quite nicely to see which exposures work the best.  I think I'm going to rename "Auto" to "Get me Closer Quickly".   ;D



So, John, to your question, yes, I'm using it on these landscape shots.   Not sure where I'll end up in my daily routine but it is fun and worthwhile so far.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:44:31 PM by rdonson »
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Ron

john beardsworth

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2017, 05:54:55 PM »

So far "Auto" is working out quite nicely to see which exposures work the best.  I think I'm going to rename "Auto" to "Get me Closer Quickly".   ;D

So, John, to your question, yes, I'm using it on these landscape shots.   Not sure where I'll end up in my daily routine but it is fun and worthwhile so far.

And that's intriguing, isn't it? I always used to call Auto "Lucky Dip" or "Roll the dice". This new version is much more.

Something else that's interesting is called Best Photos. It's currently a "technology preview" in Lightroom Web and uses the AI to choose photos based on a mixture of user input (ratings, flags) and other analysis which isn't documented but seems to include concepts like the rule of thirds and measures of sharpness. The sad thing is that it doesn't run locally but one has to sync a collection of photos, run it online, then save the output to a collection. I've not yet managed to throw an entire new shoot at it and then test its suggestions against my own review of the shoot, but my spot tests have made me feel that it's one of those high-falutin things that isn't just hot air but has practical value.

Schewe

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2017, 06:38:25 PM »

So far "Auto" is working out quite nicely to see which exposures work the best.  I think I'm going to rename "Auto" to "Get me Closer Quickly".   ;D

Which is the aim of the design of the new AI based Auto. Also, it should be noted that I personally had a bit to do with training the new AI based Auto. I adjusted over 1K of my images from all sorts of situations and conditions including under/over exposures, high ISO, studio and artificial lighting as well as landscape day and nite shots. I was charged with making those adjustments I personally would do for my images (because, well, they were my images).

Yes, the new Auto is a bit conservative with extreme highlights with a tendency of texture and detail being important. Also, the shadows tend to be fairly open...

The goal here is to be consistent in "improving" an image's global based setting and trying to improve the workflow for selection editing. Some images may need little or no further adjustments...most will need tweaking either globally or locally.

The old Auto was really and old crude and primitive attempt to generally adjust black and whitepoints with little other finesse to other settings. It sucked...it was just about as likely to screw an image up as make an improvement...but the new Auto has made great strides as a first pass adjustment.
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rdonson

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2017, 06:54:49 PM »

Thanks for the insights, Jeff.
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Ron

BAB

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2017, 07:53:36 PM »

Definitely heavy handed concerning the opening of shadows (most cameras underexpose anyway), works great with portraits (gives you warmer tones and very open shadows), I think its a great auto preset that takes you in a direction one would probably not go! Its kinda BAMM!!!!!
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I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times - "Bruce Lee"

Rand47

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2017, 09:14:57 PM »

Which is the aim of the design of the new AI based Auto. Also, it should be noted that I personally had a bit to do with training the new AI based Auto. I adjusted over 1K of my images from all sorts of situations and conditions including under/over exposures, high ISO, studio and artificial lighting as well as landscape day and nite shots. I was charged with making those adjustments I personally would do for my images (because, well, they were my images).

Yes, the new Auto is a bit conservative with extreme highlights with a tendency of texture and detail being important. Also, the shadows tend to be fairly open...

The goal here is to be consistent in "improving" an image's global based setting and trying to improve the workflow for selection editing. Some images may need little or no further adjustments...most will need tweaking either globally or locally.

The old Auto was really and old crude and primitive attempt to generally adjust black and whitepoints with little other finesse to other settings. It sucked...it was just about as likely to screw an image up as make an improvement...but the new Auto has made great strides as a first pass adjustment.

Very cool.  Thanks for your ongoing efforts. We all benefit.

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

adias

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2017, 09:34:47 PM »

The new Auto is actually quite good, IMHO.
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ButchM

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2017, 10:56:11 PM »

Itís a frigging starting point.  If you donít like it, start from Ďzeroí.  Your choice.  Not worth complaining about.

As always you wisdom on such matters is only surpassed by your eloquence.

Extremely thoughtful and valuable advice indeed.
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jrsforums

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2017, 11:00:56 PM »

As always you wisdom on such matters is only surpassed by your eloquence.

Extremely thoughtful and valuable advice indeed.

I could have only done it with your help.  😀
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John

hogloff

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2017, 12:27:16 AM »

Itís a frigging starting point.  If you donít like it, start from Ďzeroí.  Your choice.  Not worth complaining about.

Bingo !!!!
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Schewe

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2017, 02:24:26 AM »

Just a quick note that you must have the Process Version set to either Version 3 (2012) or Version 4 (Current) in order to get the new Auto. Previous process versions will kick in the old bad Auto...
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jeremyrh

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2017, 05:59:46 AM »

As I alluded to before this could be taken quite a bit further. The machine learning could be used to adapt to my style including local corrections and there could be a market at styles developped by different photographers that one could buy and download and choose between. The auto button could be replaced by a drop down menu of styles. Styles could also be from machine learning from other sources. Only the imagination is the limit. But as I said I'm sure a lot of photographers would hate this development.
Add in a self-driving car to carry your camera to a location, and we can all just stay in bed!
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BrianWJH

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2017, 02:45:25 PM »

Add in a self-driving car to carry your camera to a location, and we can all just stay in bed!

Don't forget to use your phone app to locate the best local iconic location  ;D
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adias

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2017, 02:27:51 AM »

Is this Auto technology present in ACR's Auto button on the Basic Panel?
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john beardsworth

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Re: Lightroom 7.1
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2017, 04:10:49 AM »

Yes.
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