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Author Topic: Qimage for MAC?  (Read 21241 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2018, 10:28:34 am »

One of the nice things about Qimage is that you can use the same settings for different output sizes of that same file. It adapts its output sharpening settings to the different output sizes, which makes it easy and efficient to produce multiple versions with different sizes.
Sounds like Lightroom which does the same.
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MHMG

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2018, 11:29:31 am »

To be clear, Q1 is providing application managed color, in much the same way as setting PS's "photoshop manages color". Q1 hands off its image data conversions to the the printer driver with the customary OS/printer driver pipeline, IMO. However, Q1 also enforces the printer driver default setting (i.e ignores any custom preset or "last used settings" in the driver, and it lets you know when it has to change to the default), then apparently imposes/overwrites its own settings chosen in its own GUI into that default driver condition. It therefore handles the color conversion, sets the media settings, resamples for both sizing and optimal dpi, and lastly puts its own sharpening sauce into the file before sending the data to the driver. Yup, a lot like LR.

If you are happy with the LR print module (I've never personally liked it) then Q1 may provide little benefit. I'm generally a "PS manages color" kind of guy, usually printing a single image on a page at a time rather than multiple image layouts (e.g. picture packages), so PS has always been a perfectly precise printer driver interface for me. However, when working with multiple printers as I do, Q1 does have merit in that it provides a more seamless approach to setting all the various options one needs to normally set in the printer driver. I'm not sure, however, as I haven't played with it long enough, how it handles special printer features like Gloss optimizer coverage. For that, one might still have to dive into the weeds of the printer driver and force the "default" driver setting to take care of all those more specialized settings.

Another interesting difference between Q1 and PS is that PS will let you move an image around on the page or place an oversized image on the page such that some image area will clip due to the printer margin limitations. PS gives a warning but then lets you proceed. This "feature" can sometimes have value, say for example, when printing an image that has "canvas" margin in the image file sized to the document page already (thus extending slightly past the page margin limits).  Q1 appears not to have the option to do that. Rather, it insists the image be placed fully within the printable page margin, so much so that it will actually resize an image automatically if you try to place an image which is larger than the chosen page size margin limits.  For the working photographer with a client deadline and many images to print, Q1's enforced page margin limits and auto sizing to fit may actually be a good thing, i.e.,  one less printmaking issue to worry about. :)

lastly, as I and others have noted already, I do think the proprietary way Q1 handles resize/resample/sharpen for print may well have some serious appeal to those who don't want to learn all the image editing tricks in PS which can otherwise get you to your own output taste for final optimal print quality. Is it better than what I routinely achieve in PSCC? I don't know yet, but even if it only has parity with what I routinely achieve in PSCC, it's definitely going to be a time saver.  :)

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 11:38:39 am by MHMG »
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gdsf2

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2018, 11:36:15 am »

I have a question on color management. I use Capture One, so I will need to manually export images that I have already soft proofed using the printer profile and adjusted for printing. When I do the export, what color space should I use for the exported TIFF? 

Also, should I just export the TIFF at native resolution and let Q1 do all of the resampling for size output?
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gdsf2

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2018, 11:59:47 am »


Another interesting difference between Q1 and PS is that PS will let you move an image around on the page or place an oversized image on the page such that some image area will clip due to the printer margin limitations.

So, Q1 will enforce the 0.98” top and bottom margins on the Canon Pro-1000 with fine art papers with no way to ignore the restriction?  That is a deal killer as I won’t be able to print 16x24 anymore on 17x25” paper.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2018, 12:05:00 pm »

I have a question on color management. I use Capture One, so I will need to manually export images that I have already soft proofed using the printer profile and adjusted for printing. When I do the export, what color space should I use for the exported TIFF?

Hi,

You could output with the output media's profile embedded, which will cause Qimage to use that as input profile, and if selected also as the output profile, so effectively creating a null conversion. Alternatively, you could output the Tiff in a larger colorspace than needed, and let Qimage do the conversion to the output profile's colorspace. I assume that like Qimage Ultimate, Qimage One uses the LittleCMS Color engine for the conversions.

Quote
Also, should I just export the TIFF at native resolution and let Q1 do all of the resampling for size output?

I'd let Qimage do the resampling once (and on-the-fly, which may prevent driver memory issues), from native size to whatever output size/sizes is/are chosen. Remember that Qimage can easily produce nested output with different output sizes of source images. Also, CaptureOne is limited to 250% upsampling, and Qimage has no such limitation (other than memory limitations). Qimage is quite capable of upsampling relatively small input to native printer driver resolution, which might require more than 250% if a large output size is chosen.

Cheers,
Bart
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2018, 01:40:24 pm »

One of the nice things about Qimage is that you can use the same settings for different output sizes of that same file. It adapts its output sharpening settings to the different output sizes, which makes it easy and efficient to produce multiple versions with different sizes.

Isn't that what Lightroom also does?

Jeremy
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2018, 01:56:24 pm »

Isn't that what Lightroom also does?

Hi Jeremy,

Could be the case, but Qimage adds things like interrogating the printer driver for required resolution, nesting, and finely adjustable halo-free output sharpening to the mix. The sharpening scales with output size in order to have a similarly sharpened 'look' to images irrespective of their size. One would have to compare side-by side to spot the (subtle) differences. Do note that Lightroom offers better print quality than Photoshop, so the gains are smaller when comparing Qimage output.

Cheers,
Bart
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digitaldog

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2018, 02:34:22 pm »

Do note that Lightroom offers better print quality than Photoshop, so the gains are smaller when comparing Qimage output.
How so? Last time I checked colorimetrically the average dE of a few hundred patches was a tad over .5 or so from printing a target through both.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2018, 03:21:37 pm »

How so?

Better resampling quality.

Cheers,
Bart
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MHMG

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2018, 03:38:29 pm »

Quick update on the Q1 "color management OFF" functionality. I had reported earlier in this thread it didn't seem to be working. After repeating my printing tests with it invoked, now all is well.

I had also sent a message to Q1 support and got this quick reply from Q1 tech suport on how it's supposed to work:

"It is possible to print targets directly from Qimage One. This is achieved using what is called a null transform. We tag the image as sRGB, and tell the operating system and printer we are sending sRGB to prevent OS/printer color management. For this reason, after you have selected 'Color Management OFF' in Qimage One, you should see Color Matching in the driver set to ColorSync/sRGB. It is essential you do not make changes in the Color Matching section of the driver after selecting the color management option in Qimage One or it will create problems in the output.

This is the same method other software products use to turn color management off, to work around that setting being missing from many modern drivers. What we do not yet  have access to is the ability to gray out and disable the color controls in the driver, as some products do"


Anyway, still scratching my head wondering what went wrong the first time I tried it. but second time I tried, the Q1 set the colorsync/sRGB setting in the printer driver color matching menu plus Q1 assigned sRGB behind the scenes to the untagged target profile for the null transform method to work according to plan.

Note, again, how much Q1 is interacting with the chosen printer driver. It's not bypassing it in any way as some of the marketing literature seems to imply. Rather, Q1 is simply auto-inserting various user requested settings into the correct menu/submenu items in the driver.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Ferp

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2018, 04:45:58 pm »

This is the same method other software products use to turn color management off, to work around that setting being missing from many modern drivers. What we do not yet  have access to is the ability to gray out and disable the color controls in the driver, as some products do"[/b]

Which products?  Which method does Roy Harrington's Print Tool use, and ACPU for that matter?
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deanwork

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2018, 05:26:22 pm »

The only advantage I have seen with printing out of Q-image is when upsizing dslr files where I would have fairly extreme upsizing of print dimensions, dropping  ppi to 200 or 150 or when going beyond even that by interpolating to much bigger print sizes than one would normally encourage ( such as people with IPhone files wanting them large). With quality well sharpened files (sharpened  in PKS or Photoshop or Lightroom ) I can't see much if any difference than printing via Photoshop or Lightroom. Of course having equal borders on sheets with the Z3200 is nice 🙂.

John



Thanks Mark, sounds like mostly (all?) marketing rubbish to me. Hence my question and insertion of that text from their site. Too bad they have to go that route (I'll refrain from commenting about the photography used on their site  ;D ).

I did download the demo and will try it out, along with making measurements of course. I'll stick with my custom profiles as I expected and hopped (despite the marketing nonsense) that I might be able to use.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 08:19:37 pm by deanwork »
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2018, 07:35:56 pm »

Of course having equal borders on sheets with the Z3200 is nice 🙂.
John

I would buy it just for that....

Mark
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aaronchan

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2018, 11:18:39 pm »

In the Windows Only, Qimage Ultimate version, I believe it uses LittleCMS as the engine for the color conversion.

Thanks
Aaron

aaronchan

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2018, 11:24:57 pm »

There's one think I just notice:
Where is the crop mark funtion?

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2018, 06:51:48 am »

Next to my normal Windows Qimage Ultimate I installed Windows Qimage One Demo to see what it offered in features, as a plug in from PS and LR.

The first observation; Q1 does not represent the features of QU, the last has way more right now. I do not refer to QU's RAW and Image developer tools as I hardly use them (manual cropping and some print filter creations aside) and Q1 will not get these tools as PS and LR have enough of them.  However Q1 does not have many print related QU features either. It could be that the Windows Demo is more limited than described, it could be that updates will appear soon to fill in the features I miss here. The last will certainly happen knowing Mike's reputation. I see no on the fly border creation, no cutting marks, no choice of printer profile and/or rendering choice per image in the print page preview menu and way more of that. Of the image editing tools a manual temporary/on the fly crop tool would be one of my first requests. It can be done in PS or LR but going back and forward is time consuming.

A warning right away; there is an Auto Cropping tool in the Print menu that seems to be ON as a default after the install. A handy tool for getting many images + prints fit within one size but better switch it off when learning Q1 IMHO.

The Printer Driver Helper Dialog frame that appears when driver settings have to be altered in the driver menu itself is a big black thing that obscures much of Q1 thumbnail's window. It can be switched off in Preferences, a choice I asked for immediately when QU got that some time ago. It is true that it is a good warning to set the printer profile correct to the media choice made in the printer driver menu but three times should be enough to grasp that logic.

I am not familiar enough with LR CC but I see that Q1 in my case gets an exported Tiff with ProPhoto assigned to print from. Maybe there are choices for the export format in LR and for the assigned color space then that can work with Q1. I have to explore that more and wonder whether that can affect printer profile target printing. Using Q1 straight with a folder allows no image formats like PNG etc and I know that Qimage Ultimate can have problems with assigned color spaces in some image formats like PNG. I actually use that flaw in some cases. Neither in the Plug In form or stand alone Q1 does give a choice in its CM menu how unassigned files will be treated. In QU the default  becomes sRGB as an on the fly color space when Qimage Ultimate can not find anything assigned or info  in the EXIF etc that would make sense. The default sRGB can be replaced by another default the user likes. There is no image info choice in the thumbs window menu either that can tell me what Q1 makes of an unassigned image file, I fact so far I can not see any assigned color space info either within Q1.

That said when printing a target from Qimage Ultimate and with the CM of QU switched to OFF, the image is transferred without an assigned color space even if it has one assigned or not assigned, no compensation happens, no assigned space passes. With the HP Z3200 I have the CM control in the driver then set to Application controlled CM, in expectation that it passes the image unaffected as it comes from QU and the driver expects it should have been CM treated there but was not. I would think that is the way Q1 should work too for target printing.  However when one goes for the "None" route and assigns for example sRGB to a target then both Q1 and QU allow sRGB as a printer profile choice (for that kind of profiles select All profiles + all Windows (or Mac?) profiles down at the bottom of that menu) and keep the printer menu CM choice at Let Application control CM. I would not use that "None" route with QU and Q1 CM set to Printer Driver CM ON and in the Z3200 driver CM set to Printer CM control + to expect sRGB files. It looks like a similar route but I have some doubts.

What color engine Q1 uses I have no clue about, probably LCMS like QU does. Nothing wrong with that. I wonder whether Q1 used on itself and printing a RAW file from a folder is applying the RAW developer info of LR or ACR (if available) or uses its own RAW developer on the fly or calls LR or PS into action then. Must still try that.

I am spoiled by what Qimage Ultimate has aboard. I expect Q1 will be quite different within a year from what it is right now. So take this first report with a big lump of salt.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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Abdo

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2018, 03:45:36 pm »

Looking further at QImage One, there are some things that need to be improved and very fast:

1. there are no cut marks, this for those who work with high volume printing is fatal.

2. You can not see the print size, printed area, and white border area, for example:
the customer asks roll 61cm ... image has 51x91 with plus 5 margin ... it is impossible you put the measurements in this case for printing .. At least I did not find ...

You even have a measurement underneath the image to see the size of it, but there is no option to center.
And also adjust to the extent of the customer is cruel, therefore it has to increase and decrease until you hit, it is very complicated.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 03:51:10 pm by Abdo »
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Panagiotis

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2018, 04:38:32 pm »

Looking further at QImage One, there are some things that need to be improved and very fast:

1. there are no cut marks, this for those who work with high volume printing is fatal.

2. You can not see the print size, printed area, and white border area, for example:
the customer asks roll 61cm ... image has 51x91 with plus 5 margin ... it is impossible you put the measurements in this case for printing .. At least I did not find ...

You even have a measurement underneath the image to see the size of it, but there is no option to center.
And also adjust to the extent of the customer is cruel, therefore it has to increase and decrease until you hit, it is very complicated.

I just installed the win demo Q1. Unfortunately crop marks printing and border settings are missing from Q1 in comparison to QUltimate.
To print with specific paper size and image size:
In Printer Setting tab set the custom size of the paper. In your case 610 X 1000.
In the Prints tab right click any size and choose "Add new size". There set a new custom size 510x910.
Set Auto Cropping ON
Choose "InteliSpace Placement" to center the image on the paper.
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Abdo

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2018, 05:38:20 pm »

Thanks for the answer,

This option 1 I located, but I find it still very complicated.
But its last information, I can not find where it has this command:

Set Auto Cropping ON
Choose "InteliSpace Placement" to center the image on the paper.

And one more detail, there is no 'undo' option .. I think this is a bug that needs to be fixed.

Att...

Abdo

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Re: Qimage for MAC?
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2018, 05:54:44 pm »

There is one more bug when you select the metrics system ..
The measures are practically all confused, I honestly can not find the right measures ...   :( :( :(
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