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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« on: September 15, 2006, 05:20:28 am »

I posted a similar thread about a problem I've having with printing accuracy, but this thread gets lots more attention, so I figured I'd try here. Plus, I have other questions related.

A technician was at Costco the last time I dropped off some images. He said he was "updating software." When I asked if it was the Dry Creek profiles, he shrugged his shoulders. He was a Noritsu employee too. He said the company flew him in from Hawaii to San Francisco and then rented him a brand new Nissan 300ZX to drive north 300 miles to my Costco to install software--and he doesn't even know what he is installing?

Anyway, after that day my shadows are way too dark. I went to the Dry Creek website, and sure enough, they had new profiles for my Costco. I loaded them and took in several test photos that had printed correctly a week earlier. No luck. Shadows were way to dark. It may be the entire image is too dark, but from what I could see, it's mainly shadow areas.

I recalibrated my monitor with Colorvision SPyder2 Suite. Redid the test images, same thing.

Next, to make sure this is correct, in Color Setting for PSCS2:

Top Box: US PrePress Defaults
Second from top: Adobe RGB
Leave everything else auto?

Last, is there an image I can have Costco print for comparison purposes, something with gradients and other details and color? If so, which one and where is it located.

Thanks much. I hope someone can help since I have a show to do soon and I need to print accurately.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 05:43:49 am by dwdallam »
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bjanes

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2006, 07:03:38 am »

Quote
 
Last, is there an image I can have Costco print for comparison purposes, something with gradients and other details and color? If so, which one and where is it located.

Thanks much. I hope someone can help since I have a show to do soon and I need to print accurately.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew Rodney has such a test print on his web site at the link below. It is called Printer Test File.jpg and is the first link on the top left of the page.

[a href=\"http://www.digitaldog.net/tips/index.shtml]http://www.digitaldog.net/tips/index.shtml[/url]

BTW did you try softproofing with the new profiles?

Bill
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joedevico

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2006, 12:22:51 pm »

DW -

First - I'm sure you've already checked these items - but just in case...

Your settings are correct as long as you are converting the image to 8-bit mode and converting to the proper profile before saving. AFAIK the Noritsu Printers do not read embedded profiles which is why you need to convert the image before saving. It seems you've had good results before. If you have any of those images saved, try reprinting them to see if the problem is yours or the Costco machines.

Some thoughts...

1. Assumming your on a PC and not a Mac...Make sure that you have the new monitor profile is active (I read that you can't right click a profile and choose install if one with the same name already exists - it won't overwrite it)

2. Make sure that the monitor's hardware controls are set properly. WB, Brightness, Contrast etc. prior to calibration

3. Have you installed any other software recently that would be loading at startup to affect calibration. Did Adobe Gamma get re-installed by accident. If your using system restore - I'd check the list of installed items since the date I began having problems.

4. You are remembering to turn-off the "autocorrect" options (you said you were before)

Again - I find that Costco prints tend to be a bit dark in general in any light other than direct sunlight (or perhaps a proper print viewbox, which I don't have) so I send them a bit lighter to the printer than I think they should be. Prints from my Epson do suffer from this as much as the ones from the Noritsu. Most prints on display in people's homes are under less than ideal lighting, my own included so I'd rather have the print look good hanging on a wall.

Do a simple test on one of your prints and view it in a room lit with average lighting and then walk outside on a sunny day as see how much different it looks. This doesn't explain the difference from previous prints, but should be noted anyway. Hope you find your solution.
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 05:02:01 am »

Quote
Andrew Rodney has such a test print on his web site at the link below. It is called Printer Test File.jpg and is the first link on the top left of the page.

http://www.digitaldog.net/tips/index.shtml

BTW did you try softproofing with the new profiles?

Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76421\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sure I always softproof. I scroll through all the intents before conversion too jsut to make sure I have the one that renders a particular image best or that results in the effect I want. See below. I think I've found the problem.
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 05:24:07 am »

Joe, in bright top down lighting, they do look better.  However, that is not the problem. Yes, all of my settings are correct. I checked them about 500 times. I did do reference file printing. That's how I knew it was not my problem. One of the lab employees--a guy that is the most helpful and willing to figure things out--told me that if the emulsions are not changed frequently enough, it can have a darkening effect on the shadows (among other anomalies). The gal who changes the emulsions out was not in when we talked, and he said he didn't know when they were changed last. He said that he thought it was due, and to print again in a day or two.

Today I went in with reference files again, and then a new file. I did two files from the reference file, which came from a RAW file with no changes from the original. The first was with the Costco Profile using perceptual as intent, and the second one also. The third was ICC profile Adobe 1998, perceptual also.

All three files came out very nice, and the Adobe ICC was as nice as the Costco ICC, with exactly or near exactly the same shadow contrast. The colors difference slightly, with the Costco ICC being a little more saturated in color. Other wise, exact duplicates. Looks just like it does on my screen.

I think either the lead operator figured out she needed to use the Costco Profile, as it may have gotten changed after the software update accidentally, or she didn't change the emulsions out soon enough. I'm going to ask for their emulsion change schedule and print after each fresh change from here on out.

Last, and unrelated, there are three main gals that work the lab, and all of them are rude in a matter of degree. Today I went in and asked if they were indeed using the Dry Creek profile. She said she didn;t know without even looking up. They I asked her if she new what a profile was, and she said no. Then I asked who did know, and she said she didn't know, but the main gal would be back Friday. Then she slipped and said that she was the one who turned in the reference file to Dry Creek. So I asked her how it was that she didn't have any idea what a profile was but new that they had to turn in a preference file to Dry Creek. She shrugged her shoulders.

I left really pissed. I mean she was rude beyond most any person I've ever dealt with. I was about 2 seconds from going straight to her manager and telling him I was tired of feeling like a criminal for trying to get my prints done correctly and having to deal with rudeness every time I come in. I passed on it but it took me 2 hours to cool off. I actually asked another professional photographer if he had any problems with any of the lab employees being rude, and he said he actually reported one for being so rude--she no longer works there. I told him I did too, and when we compared notes, we found out it was the same gal.

Have any of you had this problem? I'm thinking about typing up a letter the next time it happens and going for the throat. This is no reason for that. Also, when I took the dark images back, I had the returns lady ask me what was wrong with them. I told her that if she had the time and knowledge about photography and printing that I could explain it to her. She then said she did have photography knowledge and that she was a photographer and that she didn;t see anything wrong with them. I told her that the shadows were too dark according to my reference file and that it didn't matter what she thought because I'm the one who runs my business and she should do the same. Next time I get any questioning from her I'm turning her in too.

What they hell do these people think they are doing anyway? Am I in the wrong here somehow?

Quote
DW -

First - I'm sure you've already checked these items - but just in case...

Your settings are correct as long as you are converting the image to 8-bit mode and converting to the proper profile before saving. AFAIK the Noritsu Printers do not read embedded profiles which is why you need to convert the image before saving. It seems you've had good results before. If you have any of those images saved, try reprinting them to see if the problem is yours or the Costco machines.

Some thoughts...

1. Assuming your on a PC and not a Mac...Make sure that you have the new monitor profile is active (I read that you can't right click a profile and choose install if one with the same name already exists - it won't overwrite it)

2. Make sure that the monitor's hardware controls are set properly. WB, Brightness, Contrast etc. prior to calibration

3. Have you installed any other software recently that would be loading at startup to affect calibration. Did Adobe Gamma get re-installed by accident. If your using system restore - I'd check the list of installed items since the date I began having problems.

4. You are remembering to turn-off the "autocorrect" options (you said you were before)

Again - I find that Costco prints tend to be a bit dark in general in any light other than direct sunlight (or perhaps a proper print viewbox, which I don't have) so I send them a bit lighter to the printer than I think they should be. Prints from my Epson do suffer from this as much as the ones from the Noritsu. Most prints on display in people's homes are under less than ideal lighting, my own included so I'd rather have the print look good hanging on a wall.

Do a simple test on one of your prints and view it in a room lit with average lighting and then walk outside on a sunny day as see how much different it looks. This doesn't explain the difference from previous prints, but should be noted anyway. Hope you find your solution.
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Graham Welland

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 07:10:17 am »

Quote
Last, and unrelated, there are three main gals that work the lab, and all of them are rude in a matter of degree. Today I went in and asked if they were indeed using the Dry Creek profile. She said she didn;t know without even looking up. They I asked her if she new what a profile was, and she said no. Then I asked who did know, and she said she didn't know, but the main gal would be back Friday. Then she slipped and said that she was the one who turned in the reference file to Dry Creek. So I asked her how it was that she didn't have any idea what a profile was but new that they had to turn in a preference file to Dry Creek. She shrugged her shoulders.

I left really pissed. I mean she was rude beyond most any person I've ever dealt with. I was about 2 seconds from going straight to her manager and telling him I was tired of feeling like a criminal for trying to get my prints done correctly and having to deal with rudeness every time I come in. I passed on it but it took me 2 hours to cool off. I actually asked another professional photographer if he had any problems with any of the lab employees being rude, and he said he actually reported one for being so rude--she no longer works there. I told him I did too, and when we compared notes, we found out it was the same gal.

Have any of you had this problem? I'm thinking about typing up a letter the next time it happens and going for the throat. This is no reason for that. Also, when I took the dark images back, I had the returns lady ask me what was wrong with them. I told her that if she had the time and knowledge about photography and printing that I could explain it to her. She then said she did have photography knowledge and that she was a photographer and that she didn;t see anything wrong with them. I told her that the shadows were too dark according to my reference file and that it didn't matter what she thought because I'm the one who runs my business and she should do the same. Next time I get any questioning from her I'm turning her in too.

What they hell do these people think they are doing anyway? Am I in the wrong here somehow?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76655\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would just like to say that COSTCO prints are excellent quality and value for money when everything's working correctly. I find I can softproof at home and get superb value quality large prints for a fraction of the price of the ink/paper at home. My local folks will also change the rear print to use my own labelling instead of the standard Costco Date/time info.

When it comes down to service, YOU are the customer and have a right to demand that you be treated courteously and professionally. It doesn't matter whether they are stressed with over work, having a bad day, or just generally rude, you are in the right to complain and bring it to the attention of their supervisor or store manager. I think this applies especially to a company like COSTCO where we pay an annual fee to join the club ...

I've found that the best approach is to be friendly and try to establish some rapport with the staff. My local COSTCO has a number of folks working the print machines so I try to drop in at less busy times when I know that I can discuss my printing requirements with someone who isn't just trying to cope with the volume of Joe Public. I make sure that the CD's are well labelled with all the instructions about which files to print, clearly state that there should be no print cropping/scaling or auto-processing and that the files should be sent directly to the printer as-is.  

If you don't complain about the service you receive, nothing will miraculously change. If someone loses their job over their customer service attitude then that's tough but necessary. You can't hold a job like that and be rude and unhelpful to the folks who basically pay their salary.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 07:12:43 am by gwelland »
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Graham

bjanes

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 08:54:15 am »

Quote
I think either the lead operator figured out she needed to use the Costco Profile, as it may have gotten changed after the software update accidentally, or she didn't change the emulsions out soon enough. I'm going to ask for their emulsion change schedule and print after each fresh change from here on out.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76655\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Perhaps I am missing something here or don't understand what is meant by Costco Profile, but the Costco profiles that are published on DryCreek are applied by the photographer, not the lab. The Noritsu and Frontier printers used by Costco are not color managed and ignore attached profiles. Contrary to popular belief, their color space is not sRGB but rather they assume that the files are in sRGB and convert this to their own working workspace and then apply a number of tone and color balancing algorithms in an attempt to get a pleasing picture.

If you use the DryCreek profiles, you convert to these in Photoshop using your preferred rendering intent. It makes no sense to attach the profile since it is nearly a megabyte and is ignored. You then have Costco print with NO ADJUSTMENTS and the file is sent straight to the printer.


Bill
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joedevico

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2006, 11:35:25 am »

At my Costco I know most of the operators on a first name basis (Hortense, James, Brandon) and they are all extremely helpful and courteous. Funny that this is in Northern, NJ...

Anyway - I think bjanes is correct - attaching a profile is useless, you just convert the image to the proper profile before saving. I'll ask them about the emulsion next time I'm in. It's unfortunate that your having problems with your local Costco. I never print from the kiosks - too many people - I send the files over the net and then pick them up later. As long as I select no adjustments - all is well. Unless - as I said before - the operator has the wrong paper setting in the printer. If the printer is set for glossy and it's printing on lustre paper there are problems. Also if adjustments are turned "on" by the operator - everything looks horribly saturated and the shadows/highlights are completely lost.

My operators told me that they do not print enlargements with adjustments unless requested by the user - only 4x6 prints. He said that most people doing enlargements have already corrected the image in their computer and so they err on the side of caution. There may be more "pros" using Costco out here which is why they are more "up" on these issues than where DW is...

joe
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 03:42:37 pm »

Quote
Perhaps I am missing something here or don't understand what is meant by Costco Profile, but the Costco profiles that are published on DryCreek are applied by the photographer, not the lab. The Noritsu and Frontier printers used by Costco are not color managed and ignore attached profiles. Contrary to popular belief, their color space is not sRGB but rather they assume that the files are in sRGB and convert this to their own working workspace and then apply a number of tone and color balancing algorithms in an attempt to get a pleasing picture.

If you use the DryCreek profiles, you convert to these in Photoshop using your preferred rendering intent. It makes no sense to attach the profile since it is nearly a megabyte and is ignored. You then have Costco print with NO ADJUSTMENTS and the file is sent straight to the printer.
Bill
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Janes,

Yes, we've been over that already. Costco printers are profiled by Dry Creek using reference files. To get the benifit form that calibration, you need to hardware calibrate your monitor, and then convert to the Costco ICC Profile--since, as we have both stated in this thread, and other too--the Noritsu printer does not see embedded profiles. However, by converting them to the ICC profile that Dry Creek makes for Costco and having a calibrated monitor, you get a very nice representation of what is on the screen. When thigns work properly, I get prints that are great.

Now check this out: I actually tested a print with teh ICC Profile from Dry Creek and Adobe 1998. They were very similar, with the Adobe file having a slight advantage over the Costco profile in shadow detail, whereas teh Costco profile had more saturated colors. I actually think converting to teh Adobe 1998 ICC profile looks better than the ICC profile downloadable from Dry Creek.  On screen, they look identical to my eyes. Both match the screen pretty good, wiht only slight shifts in color density. Shadows look perfect.
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2006, 03:47:57 pm »

Quote
At my Costco I know most of the operators on a first name basis (Hortense, James, Brandon) and they are all extremely helpful and courteous. Funny that this is in Northern, NJ...

Anyway - I think bjanes is correct - attaching a profile is useless, you just convert the image to the proper profile before saving. I'll ask them about the emulsion next time I'm in. It's unfortunate that your having problems with your local Costco. I never print from the kiosks - too many people - I send the files over the net and then pick them up later. As long as I select no adjustments - all is well. Unless - as I said before - the operator has the wrong paper setting in the printer. If the printer is set for glossy and it's printing on lustre paper there are problems. Also if adjustments are turned "on" by the operator - everything looks horribly saturated and the shadows/highlights are completely lost.

My operators told me that they do not print enlargements with adjustments unless requested by the user - only 4x6 prints. He said that most people doing enlargements have already corrected the image in their computer and so they err on the side of caution. There may be more "pros" using Costco out here which is why they are more "up" on these issues than where DW is...

joe
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76675\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well they are really snotty where I live for some reason. I'm not going to be nice anymore. The next time I get rudeness I'm just going to ask them to call the manager up to the lab and tell him straight out on the spot I'm tired of rude employees that are unwilling to help figure out my problems.
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bjanes

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2006, 03:52:03 pm »

Quote
Janes,

Yes, we've been over that already. Costco printers are profiled by Dry Creek using reference files. To get the benifit form that calibration, you need to hardware calibrate your monitor, and then convert to the Costco ICC Profile--since, as we have both stated in this thread, and other too--the Noritsu printer does not see embedded profiles.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76693\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Then why do you imply that the tech forgot to apply the Costco profile? Just because you are unhappy with the Costco personnel, don't take it out on us. Did you ever think that the problem might be YOU?

Quote
On screen, they look identical to my eyes. Both match the screen pretty good, wiht only slight shifts in color density. Shadows look perfect.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76693\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

On screen all profiles should look the same if the CMS is doing its job.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 03:57:43 pm by bjanes »
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 02:16:03 am »

Quote
Then why do you imply that the tech forgot to apply the Costco profile? Just because you are unhappy with the Costco personnel, don't take it out on us. Did you ever think that the problem might be YOU?
On screen all profiles should look the same if the CMS is doing its job.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76695\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oh I see what you mean. OK how exactly what does the Dry Creek profile do in relation to the Noritsu printer. I see what you mean and you are I assume correct. The way I understand the profile, now that I think about it, is that it allows you to see on your screen what the printer will print, and that is all. So there is no way to apply anything on the printer.

Do the Noritsu printers have a setting for sRGB and Adobe RGB or something similar to a larger color profile? If not, then the only thing left is that the emulsions didn't get changed out for a few days. I asked today how often they change them and she said every day. So if they need to be changed every day, one or two days would make a big difference. I have no idea what is going on, but it seems to be back to normal.

I actually took three files down to them today to look at. They are all the same jpg with no adjustments made between printing. You can see a huge difference in the shadows and darkness of one image compared to the others, all printed within 3 days of each other--so there was no questioning about subjective anything. I told them these were reference files and they were identical in all respects except for the day they were printed. The next time it happens I'm just simply going to the manager and tell him that something needs to be done about the inconsistency of prints from time to time. If that doesn't take care of the problem, I'll write the district manager and send the images to him personally.

Today the gal who was really rude was soooo nice and helpful. It's strange man. Like two different personalities. I told my brother about what happened, who was in city  management at one point, and he said he had to ask this question plenty of times to clerks who were rude, or other workers he had to deal with whom were not directly under him:

"First, ask them if there is anyone who can help you some the problem. If they a rude and simply say, 'I don't know' or shrug their shoulders' ask them if their manager would know. If they say they don't know, or even more dishonestly, simply no, then say 'Well why don't you call her up here right now for me for me and we'll find out.'"

He then said if they continue to be rude, don't discuss anything with them, simply tell them that you want them to call the manager. When the manager gets there, tell him that X employee is very rude and you would like to work with him directly instead of her until there is some other solution.

He said that I have other options if that doesn't work, but he could not image that some disciplinary action would not happen. He said call the manager each time I had a problem, and document each complaint.
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eronald

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2006, 07:13:15 am »

Dwdallam,

The only sentence you need is "Please print this with no adjustments, please". And a smile helps more than talking about the manager.

 It's going to be hard for you to deal with color at a third party if you don't understand ICC color management  yourself. The staff at a lab usually just have training in operating the machine, they don't really know what they're doing because they're not required too. If they had better skills they'd have a better paid job, no ? And the company is certainly not going to invest in training that allows them to walk out the door. So if you can tell them what you want and ask politely, they'll do it, and they're very happy if the results are good for you.

If you don't know what you want, or you instruct them wrongly and get ugly prints things get unpleasant:  They simply cannot help you because they don't know either.

 I think you might profit in reading a book about color management - I'd suggest Andrew Rodney's book for you. Then you can try printing some stuff on a cheap $50 printer with stock profiles, and without, and play with assigning and converting profiles and softproofing. In the end you should know enough about it to get color-managed prints at an outside lab, and be able to fix problems if they arise. In your own workflow or in theirs.

http://www.amazon.com/Color-Management-Pho...ie=UTF8&s=books

Good luck !

Edmund
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 07:51:03 am by eronald »
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Mark D Segal

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2006, 09:10:31 am »

Edmund, that all makes alot of sense. I would also recommend Tim Grey's book "Color Confidence". It isn't as technically detailed and comprehensive as Andrew's book, but really very good for people who just need the fundamentals to get them going properly.
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2006, 03:55:48 am »

You assume much. I've read everything Dry Creek has to say about profiles, both soft proof and printer profiles, and I've read other websites also, plus two books on RAW workfolw, which have profile chapters in them. Profiles are no magic thing, unless you want to talk in technician terms using physics vocabulary, which I am not interested. Simply put, a profiled printer allows you to see on your screen, with a hardware calibrated monitor, which I've explained above, what you will get when you print on that specific printer--as closely as possible--when you print. No, the Noritsu printers do not see embedded profiles, that's why you convert to that specific profile.  First, I've asked politely about problmes I'm having. Second, the proints in question were previously printed with no problems, and have not changed. Third, I either write NO RESIZE NO ADJUSTMENTS on the package, or I do it online, which tells them to turn off adjustments. Why in the world would you think otehrwwise after reading the above explanations from me? Fourth, these employees have step way over the line--please read below.  I'm astounded that you think that I didn't know to tell them to turn off adjustments.

Quote
Dwdallam,

The only sentence you need is "Please print this with no adjustments, please". And a smile helps more than talking about the manager.

 It's going to be hard for you to deal with color at a third party if you don't understand ICC color management  yourself. The staff at a lab usually just have training in operating the machine, they don't really know what they're doing because they're not required too. If they had better skills they'd have a better paid job, no ? And the company is certainly not going to invest in training that allows them to walk out the door. So if you can tell them what you want and ask politely, they'll do it, and they're very happy if the results are good for you.

If you don't know what you want, or you instruct them wrongly and get ugly prints things get unpleasant:  They simply cannot help you because they don't know either.

 I think you might profit in reading a book about color management - I'd suggest Andrew Rodney's book for you. Then you can try printing some stuff on a cheap $50 printer with stock profiles, and without, and play with assigning and converting profiles and softproofing. In the end you should know enough about it to get color-managed prints at an outside lab, and be able to fix problems if they arise. In your own workflow or in theirs.

http://www.amazon.com/Color-Management-Pho...ie=UTF8&s=books

Good luck !

Edmund
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« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 04:56:14 am by dwdallam »
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2006, 04:44:46 am »

Quote
Edmund, that all makes a lot of sense. I would also recommend Tim Grey's book "Color Confidence". It isn't as technically detailed and comprehensive as Andrew's book, but really very good for people who just need the fundamentals to get them going properly.
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Again, I know how to use the profiles and have a basic understanding of what printer profiles do. Costco employees have little or no understanding of what their machines do.  The Noritsu machines are made for that very reason--to produce quality prints with little operator expertise. From what I've read, and remember, the only options on the Noritsu machine for basic operations, such as Costco, are some basic color and contrast adjustments, which are switched off at the customer's request. These OFF adjustments are back printed as NNNN for all off and no adjustments. Any "N" that has a number in its pace represents an adjustment to one of the color channels or contrast, that being RGB and C for contrast, I believe, or something very similar. The other maintenance that employees do is change emulsions and wipe rollers and scanner parts off to reduce dusk streaks in printing. That's about it. Everything else is called out for an authorized Noritsu technician.

However, Friday I had some what I thought, and my brother said he saw, were light streaks in the prints going from top to bottom when viewed as landscape. I had the prints reprinted and they seemed to still be there. I talked to the manager of the lab and she said she could see them but maybe it was the print, since I agreed they were not visible or less visible in other prints. She did point out that there were very small and light dust streaks in the top of the print, which she said was due to the roller needing to be cleaned. She said she would clean it and to reprint on Saturday.  I did reprint on Saturday to find they were still there, and this was verified by another lab employee. He said he was aware of the problem and that he saw them in my prints too. He also advised reprinting on Sunday. So I sent the file off through the website again for pick up on Sunday. I also created an Adobe RGB file at 12 x 18 inches at 320 ppi. It was a solid, light pastel color so as to better see any problems with streaking.

Well, the dust streaks were much better, almost invisible on the print where they were showing the most, but the test file of solid color showed more visibly the small white streaks, which the employees are calling dust streaks, and what was more obvious were the vertical light streaks every 1 1/2 inches down the entire length of the paper. There was no mistaking these light lines.

One of the employees, who is if not rude, very curt with me, asked if I wanted those photos, and I explained to her that I was looking for streaking, and that there was a problem with it on Friday. To that she replied that they had no problems with streaking in the last several days. So I explained that the lab manager had told me there was a problem and that I should reprint on Sat. and that the other lab employee said there was still a visible problem (after looking at my prints). She then told me, and this is a quote, "Don't tell me my job."

Needless to say, I called the manager and explained to him the printer problems plus the employee problem, and I called her over so she could make sure my representation of her remarks were accurate. As I was explaining that there were streaking problems, she again said there was no problem, even though she heard me say the lab manager had told me two days earlier that there was a problem, and then she said, and I quote again, "He brings everything back."  I then explained that there is obviously a problem with some of the employees and myself, and that I was sick and tired of being persecuted for asking questions and trying to solve my perceived problems, and that I assumed that Costco was trying to appeal to professional photographers, to which the manager nodded in agreement. She then said to the manager, "We're not a professional lab!"  The manger then said that he agreed that I had legitimate concerns, and that he would talk to the employee. She then said, and this is a quote, "You need to talk to the other lab technicians to see what they think of this guy too." All of this after the manager saw the problems and the other lab techs verified the dust problem.

I asked for the managers personal store number and asked when I could expect a response and at least a tentative solution to both the mechanical problems and the employee problem. He also took my information and said, one or two days maximum.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 04:46:43 am by dwdallam »
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2006, 05:14:03 am »

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Then why do you imply that the tech forgot to apply the Costco profile? Just because you are unhappy with the Costco personnel, don't take it out on us. Did you ever think that the problem might be YOU?
On screen all profiles should look the same if the CMS is doing its job.
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Janes, I didn't understand or had forgotten how the profiles are used at the printer end, but I assure you I know how to soft proof with them using the directions at Dry Creek. I've gotten excellent results doing so, almost exact color matches to my monitor--although shadows are always rendered better on a screen compared to prints.

But you assume too much. I have never "taken anything out" on any employee. I've simply asked for explanations, to which I've been treated rudely. Sure, I always think the problem is me first, that is why I do test prints and trouble shoot the problem. But when I print the exact same file one day and then print it a week later with no other manipulations, and it comes back visibly darker in the shadows, and both backprints say NNNNN, then something is obviously wrong.

Did you ever think that maybe the lab technicians at my Costco don't understand what profiles do, that all they need to do is send off the reference files to Dry Creek when asked to do so? Because if they did understand them, why not explain quickly that there is NO use profile button, that it's only a reference file and that applying it is all done on the users computer in Photoshop, etc., that the profile only tells the program what the colors look like to the printer? That's easy enough. I got no such explanation. It seems that my questioning is taken personally, which it is not.

Last, there is no excuse for being rude to customers, especially when they are only trying to solve their problems by asking questions. Remember, we pay a yearly fee to shop at Costco.  We don't pay that membership to be treated like shit by the employees--for any reason.

And if you what happend today, I think you may agree. Perhaps not. I'm sure your CEO would agree with me.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 05:16:03 am by dwdallam »
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digitaldog

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2006, 11:54:03 am »

IF this tech updated something on the device and it isn't in "sync" with the profile, this would explain the problems. The soft proof would look fine since the profile expects a fixed behavior for the printer which it isn't providing. Do you know for a fact that the adjustment made and this new profile know about each other? If not, the device has to be set to reflect the profile or what is usually the case, the profile has to reflect the device behavior.
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dwdallam

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Color problems with printing
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2006, 02:57:46 am »

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IF this tech updated something on the device and it isn't in "sync" with the profile, this would explain the problems. The soft proof would look fine since the profile expects a fixed behavior for the printer which it isn't providing. Do you know for a fact that the adjustment made and this new profile know about each other? If not, the device has to be set to reflect the profile or what is usually the case, the profile has to reflect the device behavior.
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Well, that was my thinking on the issue. I have no idea to know that except to ask, to which I get replies like, "I don't know" with no further help in resolving the problem.

The manager called me personally today and told me they had a roller problem, that he had contacted corporate and that they had approved two new rollers to be installed ASAP. So my test image was a positive problem with the machine according to the manager. It was a message on my answering machine, so I'll call him tomorrow and ask him if it's safe to assume that when I come to get my prints and have questions that I won't be treated in a hostile manner anymore by Costco Employees?
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