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Author Topic: Lr Classic and graphics processor  (Read 8607 times)

adias

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2017, 06:06:50 pm »

Tim, for me it wasn’t just shadow rendering.  I was baffled by the lack of detail of the photos in the Develop Module. 

Once the “hack” was deployed I saw the detail again.

Which machine do you have and GPU model? I see no issues on a late '16 MBP 15" with an AMD Radeon Pro 460 GPU.
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dbritch

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2017, 06:37:17 pm »

Well, admittedly I have no knowledge of Lightroom's internals, but from an end-user's perspective the bottleneck in the Develop Module has always been rendering—especially when making local adjustments, zooming to 1:1, and performing other drawing operations that are computationally expensive.  Again, just an impression, but LR otherwise seems to have enough CPU cycles to do what it needs to do on a modern multi-core machine: when it blocks, it almost always seems to be when it is updating the display.  I presume the Adobe developers use DTrace and something similar on Windows to determine for what functions greater parallelization would be useful.

I do not agree - perhaps we differ in the definition of rendering.  Absolutely, the bottleneck is in processing the image.  However, I believe that it is in processing the image prior to display, not actually mapping the processed image to the display.  On the other hand, the sensitivity of speed to screen resolution does suggest that the simply displaying it is a major bottleneck.  I've always found that difficult to accept, given the speed with which other software can display an existing in-memory image.

I would suggest that LightRoom may use an internal representation that is fairly easy to process, but difficult to display, but the processing required for local adjustments has clearly been a bottleneck.

For general-purpose processing, OpenGL is rarely a good choice.  OpenACC is easy to use, but is not as widely supported as I'd like.  CUDA is Nvidia-specific, but provides a reasonable programming environment.  OpenCL runs on almost anything, but had rather primitive development tools the last time I looked.  (That was several years ago, and is probably no longer the case.  I hope OpenCL has a good development environment and toolchain by  now.)  I would expect any of these to be preferable to do the sort of processing needed to apply adjustments to an image.
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rdonson

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2017, 08:51:08 pm »

Which machine do you have and GPU model? I see no issues on a late '16 MBP 15" with an AMD Radeon Pro 460 GPU.

As I stated in the opening post:

2017 27" 5K iMac with 40 GB RAM and AMD Radeon Pro 580 8192 MB.
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Ron

Paul2660

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2017, 09:58:44 pm »

To the OP, please clarify, before the "fix" was LR not seeing your card?  thus you could not turn on openCL?

Mac or Win, LR has always seen my Nvida cards or whatever is running on Macpro, but checking the enable openCL, really does nothing. 

Does this fix, fix the way LR works with openCL? or just fix some situations where LR can't see a particular card?

Thanks
Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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adias

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2017, 11:58:21 pm »

As I stated in the opening post:

2017 27" 5K iMac with 40 GB RAM and AMD Radeon Pro 580 8192 MB.

My fault missing your specs. It is odd, as a late '16 MBP with AMD Radeon Pro 460 has no such issues...
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2017, 01:49:43 am »

Tim, for me it wasn’t just shadow rendering.  I was baffled by the lack of detail of the photos in the Develop Module. 

Once the “hack” was deployed I saw the detail again.

By detail I'm assuming you're referring to overall sharpness appearance viewed at full frame (not 100% zoom) much like I saw going from CS3's PV2003 to CS5's PV2010 in ACR/Bridge (with Bridge's main preview in film strip mode was somewhat soft with sRGB colors). LR4 full frame Develop module preview for me on a Mac Mini/OS 10.6.8 looked detailed and sharp but did show the lighter black point which I still recommend anyone having LR Develop module preview with any version on any system first do the step wedge black point test.

In LR4 I hadn't noticed the black point preview issue because you can't see it unless you compare it to how it appears in other color managed apps which is how it was originally discovered years back. This will make the user darken shadows in their edits more than they should and then when converted to sRGB for web will make the shadows even more dark in non-color managed browsers and mobile devices.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 01:53:46 am by Tim Lookingbill »
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rdonson

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2017, 09:56:38 am »

Tim, yes I saw overall sharpness diminished on full screen and it wasn't exactly sharp either at 100%.  Using OpenGL seems to have cleared things up but I'll withhold final judgement for a while.

I'm a bit of a nut for detail.  One of my ongoing personal projects really needs the detail and that's what got me worried.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WMnTvVegqZME70hP2
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Ron

rdonson

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2017, 10:05:38 am »

To the OP, please clarify, before the "fix" was LR not seeing your card?  thus you could not turn on openCL?

Mac or Win, LR has always seen my Nvida cards or whatever is running on Macpro, but checking the enable openCL, really does nothing. 

Does this fix, fix the way LR works with openCL? or just fix some situations where LR can't see a particular card?

Thanks
Paul Caldwell

Paul, I'm not sure what you mean by "Lr not seeing your card".  It does show up in "Preferences, Performance" as "Metal: AMD Radeon Pro 580".  Without the file with the OpenGL command it behaved in an unusual manner as I described.  It worked better turning off "Use Graphics Processor". 
 
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Ron

rdonson

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2017, 10:18:59 am »

Which machine do you have and GPU model? I see no issues on a late '16 MBP 15" with an AMD Radeon Pro 460 GPU.

I've detailed the specs on my 27" 5K iMac previously.

My MacBook Pro (Retina, Mid 2012) is a different kind of a beast.  It features 2 graphics cards:  Intel HD Graphics 4000 and NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M.

Lr "Preferences, Performance" sees the "Metal: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M"


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Ron

Paul2660

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2017, 10:56:02 am »

Ron

Thanks. I will look more into this for my win machines.

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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Paul2660

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2017, 11:35:40 am »

One other question,

I stil have LR CC installed on my Mac, along with Classic CC.  I added the file to the location in the library and LR CC sees it and passes for open CL, however the Classic version doesn't.

Do I need to go ahead and uninstall the previous version of LR? to get Classic CC to see this config.lua ?

Thanks
Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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www.photosofarkansas.com

rdonson

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2017, 11:47:45 am »

Paul, I'm hoping that John Beardsworth can answer your question.  I'm reluctant to guess.
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Ron

Paul2660

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2017, 12:13:44 pm »

Hi Ron,

Thanks again for the post, great info. 

Interestingly, placing the file in the suggested location for the windows machines I have all win10, both Classic CC and the older CC LR see it and pass it for open CL. 

Went back to look at the Mac, and Classic CC only seems to want to use open GL, as I get a long series of statements about GL,  Must be something to do with having both the older and new versions installed.  Not a big issue to uninstalled the older one, but I am curious as to why only the older version sees the change on Mac.  (Sierra not sure of version) but can get that. 

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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john beardsworth

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2017, 12:33:15 pm »

Do I need to go ahead and uninstall the previous version of LR? to get Classic CC to see this config.lua ?

No, both versions use the same application support folder (templates, presets etc) and should both read any config.lua . But there's no guarantee that the version will know what to do with the variable set in the file. It's not really meant for general use.

I tried the file on my Windows machine and couldn't see any effect - other than a black screen when I tried to crop!
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2017, 01:45:06 pm »

Tim, yes I saw overall sharpness diminished on full screen and it wasn't exactly sharp either at 100%.  Using OpenGL seems to have cleared things up but I'll withhold final judgement for a while.

I'm a bit of a nut for detail.  One of my ongoing personal projects really needs the detail and that's what got me worried.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WMnTvVegqZME70hP2

Your image demonstrates what I've noticed about hobbyist photographer's prints in my local art gallery where the overall image looks tonally correct for that kind of lighting but the shadow roll off into black seems to go wrong in a noticeable way that makes me suspect the LR's shadow and black point preview may be the cause that gets the photographer to create what I term a black hole or drop out in the image that shouldn't be there. See the screengrab and sRGB readout of a daylight lit image that shouldn't have that dense of a black for that kind of lighting.

Unless you did intend to make it look like that, I can't be sure if it's due to LR's black point preview. Your linked YouTube demonstration of this is far more pronounced than what I get.
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rdonson

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Re: Lr Classic and graphics processor
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2017, 04:05:45 pm »

Tim, I intentionally took the black that low in that area. I may revisit that choice after I print and see what it looks like.  It's not a finished photo but representative of the detail I look for. 

For the record, yes, I'm a hobbyist or amateur and have been for almost 50 years.  I've done work from time to time that I was compensated for but it quickly lost its appeal for me.  It was much more interesting for me to earn my living in computer technology.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 05:55:25 pm by rdonson »
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Regards,
Ron
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