My first medium format camera

[szeryf1989]

Hi guys! This is my first post so I would like to say hello to everyone. 

I would like to buy Phase one 645df+ with digital back. I shoot still life, portraits and beauty. I love colors of the skin and sharpness of the image that gives Phase One. I have a few questions to you guys:

1. Which digital back should I choose P45+ vs P65+ vs iq140
2. Which one one has the best price/value rate.
3. Now I am using Canon 5ds, How about compare this camera to P45+ vs P65+ vs iq140, image quality will be better?
4. P45+ vs P65+ vs iq140 vs Nikon d850. I mean is that backs are not too old compare to new 35mm cameras in terms of performance/image quality. 
5. Last question: Buying lenses should I be aware of front focus/ back focus on Schneider? Or it doesn't have that problems. Is there anything that should I be aware buying second hand digital backs or 645df? What should I chceck?

[anwarp]

Welcome!

I can't answer all your questions, as I don't have a 5Ds.  My 35mm kit is a 5D2 with L lenses from Canon and some Zeiss primes.  I'll describe my experience and I hope you find some useful information there.

About a year ago I decided to dip my toes into MF.  I managed to find a used IQ260 at a very good price.  I picked up a used DF+ with a Schneider 80 LS lens from a local dealer.  I have since bought a few other lenses (all used).

I have tested the lenses for focus accuracy and to be honest they are all over the place (when I pixel peek).  I've also noticed a small amount of focus shift as the aperture is closed down.  This usually implies a small amount of uncorrected spherical aberration, which ironically also provides the smooth focus fall-off. 

The DF+ allows micro adjustment, but it is a global setting for all lenses.  I have a sticker on each lens with the necessary offset scribbled on it.  As I don't switch lenses constantly, this is a very workable approach.  This is only needed if I'm shooting with the lens wide open.  Under studio conditions, where I tend to shoot at f11 usually, the depth of field is sufficient  to leave the micro adjustment at the default.

The lenses are very sharp, especially in the centre when used wide open.  Focussing is a real dog - It's very slow, and error prone as the single centre sensor is large.  I have replaced the standard focusing screen with one from an older manual focusing Mamiya 645.  The viewfinder is slightly dimmer, but I can focus manually very easily and I find it easier to judge critical focus.  The replacement focusing screen throws the meter off completely, but it's not really a problem when I'm in the studio or have time to take a couple of test shots.  I've become used to its idiosyncrasies and I usually get it right.

I love the image quality from my MF system.  The bigger sensor plays a big part in the image quality - the larger lenses can resolve more detail. 

Being a piece of electronics, it's not going to hold its value, especially as it's a CCD back.  However, the rate of depreciation will be far lower than buying new.  For me, photography is a hobby and I enjoy using the MF system compared to using my canon system.  I have bought all my lenses and the body from dealers, so there was some comfort as they came with a few months' warranty.

I believe if you want to move to the XF in the future, you need an IQ series back.

Good luck with your decision!

Kind regards,

Anwar

[eronald]

Hi

The thing you need to be aware of is that the Phase One backs are very good in "look", the software is a pleasure to use, the lenses are ok and more than sharp enough for fashion, but the Mamiya body is horrible if you come from a pro 35mm digital. If you are shooting handheld with a subject that moves even slightly, try and get a Hassy body or a Hassy system, or one of the more modern cameras eg. Pentax, because focus is a completely unforgiving issue in medium format, and the focus on the Mamiya is no fun. The more recent Hasselblads have good focus, and if you really want to you can use a mixed system eg. H4x body and Phase back.


Edmund

Hi guys! This is my first post so I would like to say hello to everyone. 

I would like to buy Phase one 645df+ with digital back. I shoot still life, portraits and beauty. I love colors of the skin and sharpness of the image that gives Phase One. I have a few questions to you guys:

1. Which digital back should I choose P45+ vs P65+ vs iq140
2. Which one one has the best price/value rate.
3. Now I am using Canon 5ds, How about compare this camera to P45+ vs P65+ vs iq140, image quality will be better?
4. P45+ vs P65+ vs iq140 vs Nikon d850. I mean is that backs are not too old compare to new 35mm cameras in terms of performance/image quality. 
5. Last question: Buying lenses should I be aware of front focus/ back focus on Schneider? Or it doesn't have that problems. Is there anything that should I be aware buying second hand digital backs or 645df? What should I chceck?

[Paul2660]

Actually the focus on the DF+ is very good, albeit one focus point, in the center.  The difference between the accuracy of the DF+ and previous versions of of the Camera, DF, AFDIII, AFDII etc. is significant. 

Other things to consider:

The P45+ is probably the best still for 1 hour exposures in CCD, and the quality of the files is excellent as long as you stay in the base ISO to maybe ISO 400. past that the noise becomes pretty harsh. 

P65+ and IQ160 share the same chip, Dalsa 60MP, probably one of the best overall chips P1 ever released.  It is as full frame as you are going get in MF digital, has excellent dynamic range, and sensor plus which allows use of the higher ISO's with a 15MP output.  Downsides are the LCD, which is basically the same as the one on the P45+, (quality of the screen on the Canon 1ds MKI, very limited).   

P65 and P45+ both only have firewire for tethering, which means that more modern laptops will have issues as they are mostly USB3

IQ140, has the more modern IQ interface, works with the XF body (with limited features) has very good dynamic range again up to around ISO800.  The IQ interface is still IMO the best on the market, still top notch, excellent LCD, easy to see the image at 100% in image preview mode, much faster zooming and panning around the file, so if you are thinking of a tech camera, the IQ140 may be the best solution. 

If you go with the P45+, make sure it's using the firmware that will allow you to have 1 hour exposures, as some of the P45+ backs needed to go back to Phase for a physical controller card swap (mine included).

Enjoy your purchase.

Paul Caldwell

[szeryf1989]

Thank you guys for all your answers! I will shoot mostly on 50-100 ASA I don't need 1 hour exposures.  I see it's hard to tell which back is the best, some pros some cons... Too bad in Poland we don't have big Phase One dealer with used equipment.

[douglevy]

Good luck with the upgrade, MF is great fun. I've owned a p25+, Credo 40 and currently shoot Credo 60 on an H5x, but also own an H1 (which I think compares well to the DF+ and is super cheap on ebay, like $800). I think unless you're tethering 100% of the time, and especially if you're used to CaNikon LCD's, you'd be disappointed with anything except the IQ screen. Take a look at used Credo 40's though, I love the Leaf color and found it more pleasing than the P1 color. The 850 will beat out the MF setup in many areas, and I think it's worth comparing the uses and costs of a D850 with what you're considering. $10k gets you a D850 and 3-4 superb lenses, better weatherproofing, speed, ISO and many other things that the MF setup won't. It really depends how you see and shoot though.

-Doug

[Pics2]

I've been IQ160 user for more than 6 years and it is a great back. It has colors and sharpness, and that overall medium format look that you are after.
I don't know if you are aware that IQ160 is a larger sensor back than  IQ140 and P45+ (54x40 compared to 44x33)
If I was looking for 44x33 sensor these days (the one that IQ140 and P45+ have) I would go for a, well, Fuji.

[eronald]

I've been IQ160 user for more than 6 years and it is a great back. It has colors and sharpness, and that overall medium format look that you are after.
I don't know if you are aware that IQ160 is a larger sensor back than  IQ140 and P45+ (54x40 compared to 44x33)
If I was looking for 44x33 sensor these days (the one that IQ140 and P45+ have) I would go for a, well, Fuji.

P45 is 48x36 afaik, P30 and Fuji etc are 44x33, I believe.

[Paul2660]

P45 was a unique 1:1 crop not quite as large as the P65+. Not the 3:1 crop of the 50MP sensors.

I can't remember the crop on the IQ140 or Credo 40.

Paul Caldwell

[eronald]

P45 was a unique 1:1 crop not quite as large as the P65+. Not the 3:1 crop of the 50MP sensors.

I can't remember the crop on the IQ140 or Credo 40.

Paul Caldwell

there was also the P20 at 36x36 ...

[Pics2]

[q uote author=eronald link=topic=121260.msg1008674#msg1008674 date=1509480413]
P45 is 48x36 afaik, P30 and Fuji etc are 44x33, I believe.
[/quote]
You're right, my mistake - it was long time ago, I forgot  . I used to know these things. It was size of Leaf Aptus 33 and Hasselblad H3D-50 sensors, too.

[eronald]

[q uote author=eronald link=topic=121260.msg1008674#msg1008674 date=1509480413]
P45 is 48x36 afaik, P30 and Fuji etc are 44x33, I believe.

You're right, my mistake - it was long time ago, I forgot  . I used to know these things. It was size of Leaf Aptus 33 and Hasselblad H3D-50 sensors, too.

yup i think the P40 is the same physical size 44x33, as is the H6D50c, the Pentax MF digitals, and the new X1D. "MF crop sensor describes" it best.

Edmund