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Author Topic: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !  (Read 61282 times)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2017, 04:12:24 pm »

Why is it useful for people to own gun silencers: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/02/congress-gun-silencer-bill-las-vegas-243366?lo=ap_a1?
If they are hit men for organized crime, silencers are quite useful.  For the rest of us not so much.  BTW, the gunman in Las Vegas had 19 rifles in the room, two mounted on tripods and hundreds of rounds of ammunition according to the New York Times. 
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Telecaster

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2017, 05:09:00 pm »

Sick people create a sick culture that produces sicker people who create a sicker cul…

Multiple negative feedback loops entering runaway mode at the same time in this country.  :-[

-Dave-
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pegelli

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2017, 05:25:56 pm »

Okay, Pieter, give me a percentage figure based on population. From what I've been reading it sounds as if both France and Germany are having murder rates relative to their populations roughly equivalent to what we're experiencing. Of course, I'd like to leave out Chicago and Baltimore, two completely left-wing jurisdictions where gun control is being attempted.
The gun related homicide rate in germany is 0.07/100k, France is 0,21/100k and the US is 3.6/100k

That means in France about 134/yr, Germany 57/yr and the US 11.660/yr

The truck and bomb killings in both countries wouldn't even double their rate.

So the comparison you raised is false, and while every terrorist related killing with trucks or bombs is one too many it's still far lower then the rate of US gun related homicides.

So you better check the sources of what you're reading, because saying thet France and Germany have equivalent murder rates to the US is not supported by the data.
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pieter, aka pegelli

BobShaw

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2017, 07:05:01 pm »

That means in France about 134/yr, Germany 57/yr and the US 11.660/yr
For the benefit of those not used to the period being a separator, that is ELEVEN THOUSAND PER YEAR
Also that is homicides, it does not include shooting yourself.
Total gun related deaths in the USA is over 30 thousand per year.

But as they say in the US, this was not a terrorist attack, just some white guy exercising his constitutional right.
If you believe that, well .....
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Rand47

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2017, 08:13:10 pm »

It would be wonderful if we could put the gun-genie back in the bottle in the US.  But that’s not going to happen for a bunch of reasons, some legit, some nut-so.  Someone with this guy’s apparent resources would have weaponry like this even if there was a total ban on firearms in the US, I’m afraid.  And then there’s Boston where no firearms were used. 

This is the evil that people do in its most vile form.  And that is a truly intractable problem.  There will always be technology available of one sort or another.  Think more powerful (lifting capability) drones and bombs... that will undoubtedly become an issue at some point.  With his resources this would not have been much of a problem to utilize such a weapon - fly it into the middle of that crowd.  If he was bent on doing evil, and firearms were absolutely not available to him, I doubt seriously he’d have just stayed home and played golf instead.

To have this discussion focus on the sad and stupid gun situation in the US is to not reallly see the root problem.  (Don’t get me wrong, if I could make guns go away tomorrow, I’d do it in a heartbeat.)

One of the firefighters I hired 20+ years ago was at the concert and was shot through the leg.  Fortunately it looks like he’ll be OK.  This is not an academic discussion for me.

I think a change in tone as things are reported would help, at least a little bit.  We need to call evil, evil.  Talking about it in abstract terms like “tragedy” is inaccurate at a fundamental level. Tragedy is what happens when your dog gets run over by a car, accidentally.  This was a deliberate, heinous, act of pure premeditated evil, perpetrated by someone who valued his own “agenda” (for whatever warped reason) above anyone or anything else in the world.  It is narcissism taken to the ultimate level.  His name should be reviled.

Rand







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Rand Scott Adams

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2017, 08:27:58 pm »

I agree with Rand, and I'm no gun nut either. This particular use of firearms, along with this level of access to and desire for firearms, are just symptoms of a deeper problem. I think narcissism is precisely the right term. Lack of humility, and the cultural/societal acceptance and even celebration of that lack: a dark road leading to nihilistic behavior.

-Dave-
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2017, 08:51:40 pm »

... this sort of thing rarely happens in countries that have tighter gun-control laws...

Tell that to the Paris concert goers - 90 murdered. In Oklahoma bombing, 168 murdered without a single bullet fired.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2017, 09:14:35 pm »

.... That means in France about 134/yr, Germany 57/yr and the US 11.660/yr ...     Year after year after year.


Yes, the people in Paris are also very dead, we get it, but 134/yr, Germany 57/yr and the US 11.660/yr, year after year after year. Please stop insulting everyone's intelligence by attempting to draw equivalences, or are you just trying to convince yourself?




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Robert Roaldi

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2017, 09:17:50 pm »

Jim, I can't resist getting back in for one more shot: Look at it this way. All this shooting is practice for when we have to go overseas to Europe or Asia and bail their asses out of the hole they're in because they never learned to shoot straight.

I kept checking back on this thread today hoping that this posting would have been removed. I just hope that none of the Sandy Hook parents are photographers who happen to read this thread.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2017, 09:33:30 pm »

I kept checking back on this thread today hoping that this posting would have been removed...

Indeed.  A truly despicable post.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2017, 09:42:47 pm »

.... That means in France about 134/yr, Germany 57/yr and the US 11.660/yr ...     Year after year after year.

Yes, the people in Paris are also very dead, we get it, but 134/yr, Germany 57/yr and the US 11.660/yr, year after year after year. Please stop insulting everyone's intelligence by attempting to draw equivalences, or are you just trying to convince yourself?

You are comparing apples and oranges by concentrating on guns only. In absence of guns, people in other countries use something else. Knife is a known problem in Britain, for instance.

Besides, we are talking here about mass shootings. Most other shootings in the States are intra- and inter-gang related. When it comes to mass shootings:

"There were 55% more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US from 2009-15"





Source: https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2017, 09:53:17 pm »

...Please stop insulting everyone's intelligence...

I was tempted, but then I realized I couldn't possibly do a better job than mother nature did;)

Peter McLennan

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2017, 12:00:52 am »

I was tempted, but then I realized I couldn't possibly do a better job than mother nature did;)

Oh goodie.  More schoolboy taunts. 
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Peter McLennan

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2017, 12:05:46 am »

Should you choose to click on Slobodan's link, be sure to inspect the list of literature on the right hand side.  Available now for your enjoyment and edification.
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pegelli

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2017, 03:35:07 am »

You are comparing apples and oranges by concentrating on guns only. In absence of guns, people in other countries use something else. Knife is a known problem in Britain, for instance.

Besides, we are talking here about mass shootings. Most other shootings in the States are intra- and inter-gang related. When it comes to mass shootings:

"There were 55% more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US from 2009-15"

Source: https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
I'm sure there are a hundred more ways by looking at artificial (and favourable for your cause) subsets of the data to show it's not a problem in the US vs. Europe. But as they say figures don't lie, but lyers figure. How's the world looking from your ostrich hole, pretty cramped I would think ;)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 04:29:43 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2017, 06:01:55 am »

Right, Jim. In those countries they blow 'em up with bombs or mow 'em down with trucks. That's even messier.

I don't know if this will be geoblocked or not (if it is, let me know):

http://www.smh.com.au/world/heres-why-australia-will-never-understand-the-us-obsession-with-guns-20171003-gyt7ys.html

I know which is messier, and it's not here.
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Phil Brown

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2017, 06:07:57 am »

And whilst this is satirical, the statistic about two decades without mass shooting following increased gun control is true:

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/australia-enjoys-another-peaceful-day-under-oppressive-gun-control-regime/

Note, I can still get a licence for a gun and buy a gun - there are just more restrictions, checks, and controls.  We also had an amnesty and buy back (and we've just had another one).
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Phil Brown

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2017, 06:08:51 am »

Tell that to the Paris concert goers - 90 murdered. In Oklahoma bombing, 168 murdered without a single bullet fired.

You're ignoring that the point being made was that it was unusual elsewhere, not that it never happened.  It is literally now common in the US.
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Phil Brown

pegelli

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2017, 06:59:16 am »

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pieter, aka pegelli

Manoli

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Re: long live NRA - next convention in Mandalay Bay !
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2017, 07:33:02 am »

59 people dead, 527 injured, with many critically so and we've already got some loons jesting in the worst possible taste and (an)other seeking to justify the patently absurd stance of the NRA (who still today are lobbying Congress to support measures that will allow gun owners to use silencers), with jaundiced statistics.

Slobodan quotes the NRA funded crimeresearch.org, and, based on selective exclusion, says that there are more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US between 2009-15.

Scientific American, that Pegelli has just referenced above, says

Quote
Mass shootings also took place in 25 other wealthy nations between 1983 and 2013.. The US had 78 mass shootings during that 30-year period.  The highest number of mass shootings experienced outside the United States was in Germany – where seven shootings occurred.  In the other 24 industrialized countries taken together, 41 mass shootings took place.

In other words, the US had nearly double the number of mass shootings than all other 24 countries combined in the same 30-year period

KInda lends a smidgeon of perspective ...
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