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Author Topic: Epson SC P600 Workflow  (Read 12601 times)

Clark

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2017, 10:32:23 am »

Gary - just a quick question about the choice of lighting - are you using 4000K because you feel you can make a better overall judgement in this temperature, with your eyes adjusted of course? Or is it because you know the prints will be viewed in the same conditions?

Personally I'm printing for a portfolio, which I take to meetings held in all different locations, and the lighting is inevitably always different. So I try to look at my prints in various lighting and make an overall judgement this way.

As I mentioned before, regarding my screen, I'm aware the temperature and apparent darkness of my prints will change relative to my display, if the lighting conditions in the room change. This is something I'm perfectly comfortable with and not the same as my original "pink skin tones" issue, which is about relative colour!
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Garnick

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2017, 07:10:51 pm »

Gary - just a quick question about the choice of lighting - are you using 4000K because you feel you can make a better overall judgement in this temperature, with your eyes adjusted of course? Or is it because you know the prints will be viewed in the same conditions?

Personally I'm printing for a portfolio, which I take to meetings held in all different locations, and the lighting is inevitably always different. So I try to look at my prints in various lighting and make an overall judgement this way.

As I mentioned before, regarding my screen, I'm aware the temperature and apparent darkness of my prints will change relative to my display, if the lighting conditions in the room change. This is something I'm perfectly comfortable with and not the same as my original "pink skin tones" issue, which is about relative colour!

Hi Clark,

All of this is a somewhat confusing scenario, in the sense that it seems there is no longer any standard colour temp for viewing/evaluating printed work.  Since my background pointed me in the direction of 5000K for such viewing, I have always followed that path and it has served me well.  That is, except for the irregularities that accompany fluorescent bulbs, such as spiking and lack of intensity over a period of time.  Therefore, one has to be very careful to make sure such bulbs are replaced on a regular basis in order to maintain a "standard" light source.  However, I shall not dwell on that subject any longer, for those who have heard it before, probably from reading my posts.  When I moved my business to my home early this year I had to find a new standard light source for my print viewing/evaluating station.  I posted the subject on this forum, which received a number of replies, none of which steered me toward any sort of standard lighting system.  It seemed that almost every post offered a different solution, but when Wayne Fox chimed in with some interesting information I started some research.  I soon discovered that the company he had been dealing with for his gallery lights is situated in Toronto, about an hour drive from my home.  I started to communicate with them and eventually ordered two of their LED bulbs to test.  I wanted to check the difference between the 3000K and 4000K bulbs and their effect on the prints.  It took a very short time for me to decide on the 4000K, since they do not produce a 5000K.  I then ordered the EasyLinx Modular LED Bars, two 6" and two 48", along with the dimmable power supply.  I put them together and installed them on the 7' ceiling in my rec-room where I work.  They are a very clean light source, and the slightly warmer temperature suits what I feel is probably close to what most people would be using in their homes and work places.  It's also close enough to 5000K that it covers a variety of lighting situations in my opinion.  Concerning your portfolio prints and lighting.  That's a battle you cannot possibly win, unless you settle for an evaluation light source with a colour temp that falls about half way between 3000 and 5000K, or carry your own lighting setup with you, which of course is a ridiculous concept. 

I'm afraid my attempt to shed some "light" on this subject has fallen short, but I hope you might be able to take something away from my rambling.  Perhaps a 4000K light source would suit your situation, as it has mine.  If you wish to look into it in more depth, try this site - http://lumicrest.com/.  They're very knowledgeable people and can offer some good advice for your situation I believe.  I don't know where you are located, but due to your spelling of a certain word I'm led to believe you might be stationed here in Cannuck Land. 

Gary       

 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 07:32:14 am by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2017, 10:55:02 am »

Hi Clark
I'll venture a response following those of two respected experts.
First, use a Datacolor Spyder or similar to calibrate your screen.

Compared to the built-in calibrator in the CG 277 the Spyder is a less accurate calibrator. When I tested three different Spyders I got three different results and none of them were close to the results I got from my Basiccolor Discus.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2017, 11:07:10 am »

Sure - I would expect a Discus to be far more accurate.
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2017, 12:54:34 pm »

Compared to the built-in calibrator in the CG 277 the Spyder is a less accurate calibrator.

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=103094.msg845726#msg845726
The higher the reported dE, the worse the unit preformed. So you'll see two Spyder's (newest models) were 9.9 and 7.2 which is pretty awful. The X-rite products were 1.4 and as low as 0.8!
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Frodo

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2017, 03:36:32 pm »

Very interesting, but I couldn't see the chart in the linked thread.
I have a Spyder 3, which made a big difference to my AOC screen.
I'm in the market for a new PC and screen and may update my calibration tool then.
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2017, 04:02:01 pm »

Very interesting, but I couldn't see the chart in the linked thread.
It's gone (or the link is dead). I have a copy, I would hope it's OK with the author to post it:

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Garnick

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2017, 12:18:24 pm »

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=103094.msg845726#msg845726
The higher the reported dE, the worse the unit preformed. So you'll see two Spyder's (newest models) were 9.9 and 7.2 which is pretty awful. The X-rite products were 1.4 and as low as 0.8!

I must admit that these last few posts have been an eye-opener concerning display calibration hardware.  I've been using the Spyder for many years up to version 4, but haven't yet upgraded to version 5.  After reading these posts I think I might be ready to bite the bullet and invest in the x-rite solution.  There is one question I have though.  For the past 7+ years I've been using NEC Displays and the Sprectraview App with the Spyder.  My question concerns the use of the i1Display Pro Software, as opposed to the NEC Spectraview app.  Is there a discernible difference, and which one would perhaps produce the better calibration?  Since the x-rite package includes the calibration software, it might be advantageous to try both I suppose.  All opinions appreciated.

Also, in what way(s) is the i1Display Pro superior to the ColorMunki Display? 

Gary
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 12:40:23 pm by Garnick »
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Stefan Ohlsson

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2017, 03:03:48 pm »

There is one question I have though.  For the past 7+ years I've been using NEC Displays and the Sprectraview App with the Spyder.  My question concerns the use of the i1Display Pro Software, as opposed to the NEC Spectraview app.  Is there a discernible difference, and which one would perhaps produce the better calibration?  Since the x-rite package includes the calibration software, it might be advantageous to try both I suppose.  All opinions appreciated.

Also, in what way(s) is the i1Display Pro superior to the ColorMunki Display? 

Gary
You can and should use the SpectraWiew app with the i1 Display. ColorMunki can just be used with XRite's software, so you can't use SpectraView. And the ColorMunki Display is much slower.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2017, 03:11:37 pm »

You can and should use the SpectraWiew app with the i1 Display. ColorMunki can just be used with XRite's software, so you can't use SpectraView. And the ColorMunki Display is much slower.
According to the US release notes, the ColorMunki can be used with SpectraView.
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Garnick

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2017, 03:22:10 pm »

You can and should use the SpectraWiew app with the i1 Display. ColorMunki can just be used with XRite's software, so you can't use SpectraView. And the ColorMunki Display is much slower.

Thanks for this Stefen.  Yes, I knew I could use i1 Display Pro with Spectraview, but not sure if the i1 DP software might be a better choice.  Your reply has shed some light on that one.  Also for the comparison with  ColorMunki.  Much appreciated.

Gary
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Gary N.
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Garnick

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2017, 03:29:16 pm »

According to the US release notes, the ColorMunki can be used with SpectraView.

Well Alan, that would seem to perhaps be questionable.  You'll notice here(http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/spectra-view-II/Compatibility) the asterisks accompanying the ColorMunki, as well as the apparent README file, which I could not locate.  Something is amiss with that page, but I think I have settled on the i1 Display Pro, so the rest is moot.

Thanks Alan,
Gary 
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2017, 03:30:26 pm »

Also, in what way(s) is the i1Display Pro superior to the ColorMunki Display? 
Same hardware, different host software which is moot if you can use it with SpectraView. The ColorMunki is going to measure slower due to whatever reason X-rite felt the need to do this for a lesser expensive option.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2017, 04:17:15 pm »

Well Alan, that would seem to perhaps be questionable.  You'll notice here(http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/spectra-view-II/Compatibility) the asterisks accompanying the ColorMunki, as well as the apparent README file, which I could not locate.  Something is amiss with that page, but I think I have settled on the i1 Display Pro, so the rest is moot.

Thanks Alan,
Gary
Just to close this out, here is the list of supported sensors from the most recent version of the SpectraViewII software (I had to do a reinstall a couple of months ago).  the issue with the ColorMunki is having to manually install the driver according to this.

Quote
SpectraView II supports the following color sensors:

    NEC iOne Display V2 *
    NEC MDSVSENSOR iOne Display V2 WG *
    NEC SpectraSensor Pro *
    NEC MDSVSENSOR3 *
    X-Rite/GretagMacbeth iOne Pro and iOne Monitor *
    X-Rite iOne Pro2 *
    X-Rite/GretagMacbeth iOne Display V1 and V2 *
    X-Rite DTP94 / MonacoOPTIX-XR
    Datacolor Spyder2
    Datacolor Spyder3 *
    Datacolor Spyder4 *
    Datacolor Spyder5 *
    X-Rite ColorMunki
    X-Rite iOne Display Pro *
    BasICColor Discus *
    Photo Research PR-655, PR-670, PR-680, PR-730, and PR-740 Spectroradiometers.

* Drivers for these color sensor devices are automatically installed on the system by SpectraView if selected in the installer. Drivers for other sensors may have to be manually installed.

Drivers for sensors are available on the SpectraView II CD-ROM or in the \Program Files\NEC Display Solutions\SpectraView II\Drivers folder after installing SpectraView (on 64 bit versions of Windows the folder location  \Program Files (x86)\NEC Display Solutions\SpectraView II\Drivers).
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Garnick

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2017, 05:52:30 pm »

Just to close this out, here is the list of supported sensors from the most recent version of the SpectraViewII software (I had to do a reinstall a couple of months ago).  the issue with the ColorMunki is having to manually install the driver according to this.

Hi Alan,

Sorry to belabor this, but are you on Windows or Mac?  I'm a Mac guy and cannot seem to find the same window with the list and explanation you have posted, so I'm wondering if that might be a Windows page for SpectraviewII on the NEC site.  Also, has anyone checked the Colorimeter NEC is selling(http://www.necdisplay.com/p/sensors/mdsvsensor3), supposedly incorporating x-rite technology.  I have no intention of using any displays other than NEC PA Series, which means I'll be using Spectraview as well of course.  Since the pricing of the NEC "SpectraSensor" is very competitive with the x-rite i1 Display Pro, it might be a piece of hardware to consider.  Any suggestions or opinions?

Gary     
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Garnick

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2017, 06:13:01 pm »

Same hardware, different host software which is moot if you can use it with SpectraView. The ColorMunki is going to measure slower due to whatever reason X-rite felt the need to do this for a lesser expensive option.

Hi Andrew,

Would it not perhaps be the software driving the ColorMunki that would determine the relative "speed" of the procedure, as opposed to the hardware itself?  I ask because apparently it can be used with SpectraviewII, so perhaps that combination would offer a faster calibration than the included x-rite driver.  I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but thought I would at least pose the possibility.  Any ideas on this?  Blow it out of the water or perhaps give it some degree of credence?

Gary 
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digitaldog

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2017, 07:00:35 pm »

Hi Andrew,

Would it not perhaps be the software driving the ColorMunki that would determine the relative "speed" of the procedure, as opposed to the hardware itself?
I don't believe so but rather some chip in the actual hardware. It's hardly a big deal; so it takes 12 minutes instead of 9 to calibrate a display.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2017, 08:10:19 pm »

...................I have no intention of using any displays other than NEC PA Series, which means I'll be using Spectraview as well of course. ..............  Any suggestions or opinions?

Gary   

Not "of course" - there is at least one option. I use BasicColor Display with NEC's colorimeter for my PA271W. I achieved more accurate profiling with it at a time when I wasn't quite satisfied with the Spectraview results and from then on just maintained it. It's fine software and compatible with this display series and a number of different colorimeter models.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Garnick

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2017, 09:21:28 pm »

Not "of course" - there is at least one option. I use BasicColor Display with NEC's colorimeter for my PA271W. I achieved more accurate profiling with it at a time when I wasn't quite satisfied with the Spectraview results and from then on just maintained it. It's fine software and compatible with this display series and a number of different colorimeter models.

Very interesting Mark.  I use the same display for most work, and the 24" version as a backup and second display occasionally.  More fodder to contemplate.  And you are also using NEC's SpectraSensor, if I read that correctly.  Sounds like a good combination and a economical one as well, compared to the i1 Display Pro at Vistek.

Thanks Mark,

Gary   
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Epson SC P600 Workflow
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2017, 09:42:41 pm »

Very interesting Mark.  I use the same display for most work, and the 24" version as a backup and second display occasionally.  More fodder to contemplate.  And you are also using NEC's SpectraSensor, if I read that correctly.  Sounds like a good combination and a economical one as well, compared to the i1 Display Pro at Vistek.

Thanks Mark,

Gary   

The NEC PA271W that I bought came with their own MDSVSensor, which is a rebranded X-Rite i1Display 2.
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