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Author Topic: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?  (Read 2604 times)

StuartR

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Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« on: September 28, 2017, 09:28:41 AM »

I run a quite low volume studio in Iceland doing high end printing for museums and galleries. I have been using a 9900 since 2009, and my head finally died. Rather than pay to fix it, I am planning on swapping for a newer model (or possibly converting it to piezography). The dealer here is pushing towards the 10000, which I had not considered before. Quality is more important for me than speed, and I would prefer the printer that is best suited for high quality and low volume. I know neither is geared towards low production environments. My volume is low, but I am still printing every few days, but I do often leave for a few weeks at a time to go on shoots etc. I suppose at those times I can schedule the auto cleaning or nozzle checks etc. Of course, not having to switch black inks and higher speed is great, all else being equal...

What are the current experiences on the difference in gamut between the 9000 and 10000, as well as the resolution? Is the head and ink consumption of the 10000 significantly better than in the 9000?

How does the black and white in the 10000 with 4 blacks compare to the 9000 with QTR or ABW?

Thanks for the help...I need to make a decision on this very soon, so if anyone has thoughts, I would be very happy to hear them.
Stuart
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I.T. Supplies

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 10:50:02 AM »

If you're not a production or doing LOTS or printing, I wouldn't recommend the P10000 and stick with the P9000 or even P8000.
Depending on what you're actually printing, the P9000 will rarely use the Orange and Green if you're not technically printing in certain modes (like CMYK) or have the proper colormetric selection picked (Relative vs Perceptual).

The P10k does have a new print head and ink set which is geared more towards production printing and you would NEED to use it all the time so the head doesn't have issues later.  It's basically made to print everyday.

With the built in timer, updated coating on the head and ink set to work properly with the head, it's been doing much better with the nozzle clog issues.  Many of our customers enjoy the P series more than the other models (if they upgraded to the new ones).

What is your main printing application?
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StuartR

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 01:56:24 PM »

Hi, thanks for the help Atlex. I print almost exclusively for museums, galleries and artists, in color and black and white. Gamut is helpful for me, as I have visual artists as clients who occasionally use colors that are more saturated than the typical photographic image of a standard scene. I print on a regular basis, but rarely all day long. Much of my time is spent dealing with clients one on one for file preparation, and working with them to get the print exactly how they like it, the printing itself is usually a smaller part of the process. I do not take much work where clients just hand me a file and I print it. Because of that, speed is not as big of a concern. That said, the quality and reliability of the head could push me to a 10000 if it was significantly better than that of the 9000, but it sounds like the 9000 is better for what I am doing. I would continue to use it like I use my 9900...I am a one person, bespoke printing service, not a production house.
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deanwork

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2017, 02:45:36 PM »


Hi Stuart,

I would talk to someone like Royce Howland in Canada who has been using this printer daily for about 8 months. He is using the 10k and 20k .

I was considering this printer for the same reasons as you but I was extremely interested to see how the quad inkset was working with both gloss and matte media with their revised abw software that Epson was bragging about. I couldn't find anyone who could find any difference with monochrome from what they had before, or anyone who was using it with studio print which could function better. Epson never told us anything about its monochrome capability which seemed really strange. All they emphasized was speed. That's the culture we are living in unfortunately.

This is Royce's website. They run a big art printing studio in Calgary and have used lots of all the big epson printers for years.

http://www.vividaspectphoto.com

John

http://www.vividaspectphoto.com



Hi, thanks for the help Atlex. I print almost exclusively for museums, galleries and artists, in color and black and white. Gamut is helpful for me, as I have visual artists as clients who occasionally use colors that are more saturated than the typical photographic image of a standard scene. I print on a regular basis, but rarely all day long. Much of my time is spent dealing with clients one on one for file preparation, and working with them to get the print exactly how they like it, the printing itself is usually a smaller part of the process. I do not take much work where clients just hand me a file and I print it. Because of that, speed is not as big of a concern. That said, the quality and reliability of the head could push me to a 10000 if it was significantly better than that of the 9000, but it sounds like the 9000 is better for what I am doing. I would continue to use it like I use my 9900...I am a one person, bespoke printing service, not a production house.
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narikin

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2017, 04:02:00 PM »

If you're not a production or doing LOTS or printing, I wouldn't recommend the P10000 and stick with the P9000 or even P8000.
Depending on what you're actually printing, the P9000 will rarely use the Orange and Green if you're not technically printing in certain modes (like CMYK) or have the proper colormetric selection picked (Relative vs Perceptual).

The P10k does have a new print head and ink set which is geared more towards production printing and you would NEED to use it all the time so the head doesn't have issues later.  It's basically made to print everyday.

With the built in timer, updated coating on the head and ink set to work properly with the head, it's been doing much better with the nozzle clog issues.  Many of our customers enjoy the P series more than the other models (if they upgraded to the new ones).

What is your main printing application?

My P20000 has been exceptionally good with very light personal use, and long shut-downs between them. It has had no clogs to speak of in 10 months. Better than the old series, for me at least.
 
I don't feel you need to have high production to run these machines. Good luck.
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deanwork

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2017, 04:05:05 PM »

And it isn't going through these long cleaning cycles all the time wasting tons of ink. That was the complaint when they first came out. Then I heard they did some firmware upgrade.



My P20000 has been exceptionally good with very light personal use, and long shut-downs between them. It has had no clogs to speak of in 10 months. Better than the old series, for me at least.
 
I don't feel you need to have high production to run these machines. Good luck.
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StuartR

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 04:49:11 PM »

Thanks guys, that is helpful to hear. I think at this point, it would probably either be the 9000 or 20000...I figure after the initial hit for the 20000's extra size, having the ability to do the massive prints could be a nice tool. That said, it will be my only printer, and I have a lot of small work too. I am used to the 9900, so I know what I am getting into with respect to the 9000's sheet and small roll handling, but I guess the 10 and 20000 are not as efficient with sheets? (I sometimes use sheets for proofing or for portfolio work where it is helpful to have the work extra flat).
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Royce Howland

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2017, 09:23:20 PM »

Yes, we run the Epson P10K and P20K. After some initial gremlins with both of them (software and hardware), I'm happy to say they are cranking along well for us now. I can't compare them directly to the P9000 or the other smaller siblings, because we'll probably never run those printers. For us the P10K / P20K are the right choice out of the current Epson models. I'm so glad Epson now makes a matching 44" and 64" pair. Before, with the older series, we were running several 11880's for our big stuff and then some x880's and x900's for the smaller stuff. The 11880 was a different platform in terms of paper handling, inkset and black ink switching; the difference was annoying. Plus I really grew to dislike the x900's for their clogging and head failure problems.

The P10K and P20K are made to run hard, but I can't say whether running them less hard would be a problem or not.

I wouldn't say the P10K / P20K are any more or less efficient at cut sheet handling than the older series. We run cut sheets all the time, including large sheets of "interesting" papers. :) I mean, of course you're feeding them one at a time, but that's the same as always. The new horizontal front feed of the P10K / P20K is good for long & rigid sheets / boards, something that couldn't as easily be used on the old machines with the sharp down angle of the media exit path.

We really like the new inkset. Darker black and extra grey benefit monochrome prints, but also benefit colour prints by bringing more colour gamut in the dark tones. On the whole these are the first Epson printers we're convinced are worth the upgrade since the 11880 itself came out...

deanwork

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2017, 10:09:31 PM »

So you see a significance between the new Epsons with the extra light gray compared to the 11880?

How does it compare to Piezography?
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Royce Howland

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 05:36:14 PM »

Yes, K4 is better than K3. It's not like night & day, but the positive difference of the new inkset is appreciable -- more gamut in the shadow tones for colour work, deeper blacks and smoother gradients. We are definitely deemphasizing our 11880's now. We typically run things like standard luster prints and canvas through them, as well as anything editioned that needs a closer match to past prints made on the K3 inkset. Otherwise everything going forward is the new inkset on the P10K / P20K all the way.

For monochrome, Piezography is still much better in my opinion, as long as you can give up control of toning to the ink mix. We have no plans to retire our K7 printers...

deanwork

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 07:37:19 PM »

Thanks man. The sample Epson sent me of black and white on that metallic paper was worthless.

I think with a good rip like studio print that inkset could be really good for monochrome though unlike my thermal printers it requires a lot of color dots to neutralize.


Yes, K4 is better than K3. It's not like night & day, but the positive difference of the new inkset is appreciable -- more gamut in the shadow tones for colour work, deeper blacks and smoother gradients. We are definitely deemphasizing our 11880's now. We typically run things like standard luster prints and canvas through them, as well as anything editioned that needs a closer match to past prints made on the K3 inkset. Otherwise everything going forward is the new inkset on the P10K / P20K all the way.

For monochrome, Piezography is still much better in my opinion, as long as you can give up control of toning to the ink mix. We have no plans to retire our K7 printers...
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jtremblay

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2018, 04:23:18 PM »

Not sure if anyone is following this thread anymore, but just in case anyone is out there wondering about these printers: I'm a fine art photographer who sells my work out a gallery. About a year ago I was looking at getting a larger printer then the Epson 7900 I had been running. I asked a reseller for advice and they consulted with a guy from Epson who recommended the P10000 over the P9000. I purchased, and found that there was no profile built for my favorite paper; Ilford Gold Fibre Silk. I was put in touch with a color guru from Ilford who built me a custom profile using i1Profile, but the orange/red was defiantly lacking. She then had a custom profile built by a more sophisticated method out in CA but again the orange/red color was not close to what I was getting from the 7900 using the standard Ilford profile they provide for this paper. The guy who built the profile in CA said I had the wrong printer, I should have purchased the P9000. I then called Tech support at Epson - who told me the exact same thing: I should have purchased the P9000. Back to the Epson guy who recommended the P10k printer - He assured me that he could build me a profile that would match what I was getting from the 7900.

Fast forward to a year now and the conclusion is that without knowing how the profile was built by Ilford for the 7900 he has no way of matching this. He has also stated that the new P9000 has less of a color gamut then the old 7900, so even if I were to change out the printer for the P9000 I would still not be able to match the orange/red I was getting from the 7900.

Has anyone else had this issue?
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datro

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 07:10:37 PM »

The guy who built the profile in CA said I had the wrong printer, I should have purchased the P9000.

He's right.  Both the 7900 and the P9000 include an Orange ink; the P10000 does not.  It is no surprise to me that the P10000 (even well profiled) does not have the same gamut depth in red/orange.

He has also stated that the new P9000 has less of a color gamut then the old 7900

I'm doubtful.  I had a 7900 (still have it but printing only Piezography Pro) and I also have a P9000.  Some (for sure the blacks and yellow) of the P9000 inks were updated, but I'd be really surprised if you would be able to see any differences in red/orange between the two printers.

My two cents..
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deanwork

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2018, 10:03:12 PM »

QTR doesn't support the P10k and P 20k printers but does support the 8000/ 9000.

I'm still wondering :

Has ABW on the 10 and 20k printers equaled bw capability of 8000/ 9000 with QTR which utilize one less gray?

And has bw smoothness and neutrality improved significantly with 8000/ 9000 over the 9900 series when using either ABW or QTR?

Or are we just talking about very subtle improvements, if any ?

John


He's right.  Both the 7900 and the P9000 include an Orange ink; the P10000 does not.  It is no surprise to me that the P10000 (even well profiled) does not have the same gamut depth in red/orange.

I'm doubtful.  I had a 7900 (still have it but printing only Piezography Pro) and I also have a P9000.  Some (for sure the blacks and yellow) of the P9000 inks were updated, but I'd be really surprised if you would be able to see any differences in red/orange between the two printers.

My two cents..
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Epson P9000 vs p10000 a year later...what are the experiences?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2018, 07:39:14 PM »

He has also stated that the new P9000 has less of a color gamut then the old 7900, so even if I were to change out the printer for the P9000 I would still not be able to match the orange/red I was getting from the 7900.

Has anyone else had this issue?
most profiles for me on the p9000 have a very slightly smaller gamut volume, about 1-1.5%. I make my own profiles using i1profiler and a 4101 patch target on an iSis.  Difference on EPG is 895,402 vs 882,097 ... just not significant enough to cause any visual difference in any prints.  Note that the p9000 gamut in yellow/orange is actually a little larger.  I don't think you will see any visual difference in the orange/red between the two printers. I've printed dozens of prints that I've sold over the years, and for me the color is rendering identically.  There are some images where I feel I'm seeing a slight improvement in shadow detail, but for me it was all about the improved longevity of the yellow ink.

here's a comparison, wireframe is the p9000, solid is the 9900, this is on Epson Premium Glossy paper.  Legacy Baryta show pretty much the exact same differences.
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