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Author Topic: Leica M8  (Read 5147 times)

David R. Gurtcheff

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Leica M8
« on: September 10, 2006, 01:50:07 pm »

Hello all:
I live in a NJ seashore resort town, and sell a lot of my local seascapes in various sizes. Many sales are of 16"x24", and 20"x30" prints, which I mat and frame. I have "pushed the envelope" with 16"x24" prints from some very good 35mm scanned negatives. My 20"x30" prints are from Canon 1Ds, and 1DsII files, and scanned medium format negs. I used to be a big Leica RF fan, having owned M2, M3, and M4s. I just advanced ordered an M8. I have 15mm, 21mm and 35mm Voigtlander lenses, and a 24mm Elmarit ASPH lens to start out using my M8. Assuming the M8 sensor is similar to the Leica DMR, can I expect high quality 20"x30"s? This is important, as I sell a lot of this size. I realize the reason to own Leica bodies is to use their lenses, and I will purchase additional, if needed. I just happen to have the above lenses which I use with a Voigtlander R.F. film camera.
Thanks in advance.  
Dave G in NJ
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Fred Ragland

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Leica M8
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2006, 03:46:27 pm »

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...I just advance ordered and M8...can I expect high quality 20"x30"s?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75992\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You'll find many Leica users on the Fred Miranda forum Alternative Digital Systems and Lenses.  You shoudn't have any trouble getting a variety of opinions.
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David R. Gurtcheff

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Leica M8
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2006, 05:34:33 pm »

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You'll find many Leica users on the Fred Miranda forum Alternative Digital Systems and Lenses.  You shoudn't have any trouble getting a variety of opinions.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75999\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you Fred. I posted over there also.
Dave
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Nemo

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Leica M8
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2006, 03:46:09 pm »

A 24x36 frame needs a x8 enlargement for a 8x12 (aprox. A4 print).
Whether the sensor and lens resolve 40 lp/mm we will get 40/8 = 5lp/mm of real detail in the print. Just the amount of detail the human eye can resolve, at best, at optimum distance (25cm or more, depending on age).

For a A3 print (12x16, aprox) and 5 lp/mm of real detail the sensor (film) need to resolve 80 lp/mm. There is no full frame digital camera with this resolution power (I think a 22MP full frame camera would be necessary). Only medium format cameras, mostly due to the smaller enlargement factor, can reach the necessary resolution for those prints.

These requirements are increased for a cropped sensor. The M8 sensor has a crop factor of 1,33, and therefore 40x1,33 = 53 lp/mm and 80x1,33 = 106 lp/mm should be resolved in order to have 5lp/mm of real detail in those prints (A4 and A3).

The 74 lp/mm of maximun theoretical resolution (Nyquist limit) of the M8 sensor -but less than that number of real maximum resolution-, means that the M8 is capable of gorgeous A4 prints, but other cameras actually in the market will provide visibly better prints at A3 sizes or bigger (I am thinking on the Canon 1Ds Mark II and Canon 5D, due to the bigger picture size -number of pixels- and smaller enlargement factor). I think the M8 could be comparable with a Canon 1Ds, in terms of detail resolved on paper.

The image quality will be very good, due to the optics, the abscense of low-pass filter and the (big) size of the sensor. I try to say that 10MP in the M8 are not like 10MP in other cameras with inferior lenses and smaller sensors. However, the full frame cameras with more pixels, specially if they work with good lenses, will provide higher resolution on paper. Color rendition, contrast, distortions and fingerprint of the lenses are another history... Leica lenses are hard contenders here.

Erwin Puts' comments are fair, but he was using a camera with unfinished firmware. I don't expect such differences between the 5D and the M8.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 05:44:28 am by Nemo »
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Ben Rubinstein

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Leica M8
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 04:30:07 am »

The question may well be here whether or not a rangefinder is the best camera for your type of shooting. Landscape was never really the rangefinders niche.
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Nemo

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Leica M8
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 05:34:53 am »

Wide angle lenses for M cameras are superb. They are not retrofocus designs, so are very small and the performance is stunning. You can do landscape work without hesitation with these cameras.
Medium format rangefinder cameras were used for these purposes.
Many people have not used a rangefinder camera. I think they are not so versatile as reflex cameras, but they can be employed in many jobs with great results.
For instance, if you use a Canon 5D for landscape work, with a few wideangle lenses, I would recommed to try a rangefinder camera (Leica M8) instead. It is much smaller and the lenses are better performers than wide angle Canon lenses. Wide angle lenses are easy to focus in rangefinder cameras.
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Nemo

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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 05:46:53 am »

Leica asked Erwin Puts to not publish test pictures of the M8 made with pre-production firmware.
The pictures (and comments) has been retired.
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dlashier

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Leica M8
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2006, 02:01:19 pm »

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The question may well be here whether or not a rangefinder is the best camera for your type of shooting. Landscape was never really the rangefinders niche.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76652\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IMO RF is perfect for landscape. Light, easily handheld, large bright viewfinder, full scene view, excellent for WA, little need for tele, easy manual focusing. Professionally RF was not popular for landscape but this was not because of RF versus SLR issues but rather because landscape was the domain of MF and LF. But with digital I would far prefer RF for reasons mentioned above. I shot (non-pro) landscape with an RF for many years and miss it dearly.

- DL
« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 02:06:37 pm by dlashier »
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David R. Gurtcheff

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Leica M8
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 11:37:47 am »

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IMO RF is perfect for landscape. Light, easily handheld, large bright viewfinder, full scene view, excellent for WA, little need for tele, easy manual focusing. Professionally RF was not popular for landscape but this was not because of RF versus SLR issues but rather because landscape was the domain of MF and LF. But with digital I would far prefer RF for reasons mentioned above. I shot (non-pro) landscape with an RF for many years and miss it dearly.

- DL
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76684\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks all for your comments. The M8 will not replace my 1DsII. I envision doing different kinds of work or using it when I need a small compact kit. Travel photography with light weight small kit; city streeet photography; riding my bicycle with wife around our island with tripod-less shooting of marine scenes, commercial fishing boat scenes, etc. My SLR, monopod/tripod will still be used for studied seascapes, precise polarizing filter shots, long lens shots for birding. BTW: my 20"x30" prints made with the original 1DS (12mp) suits my needs, and I have sold quite a few. If the M8 delivered similar quality it would fill my needs. Thanks all again.  The types of work I am interested in shooting are here:   www.modernpictorials.com
Best regards  
Dave G in NJ
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