Started by Michael Erlewine, July 25, 2017, 01:19:52 am
Quote from: shadowblade on August 27, 2017, 10:44:38 pmBSI would deliver that
Quote from: scyth on August 27, 2017, 10:31:23 pmmarket share dynamics so far proves Canon right...
Quote from: scyth on August 27, 2017, 10:52:47 pmthat (performance @ "high ISO") was delivered by DR-Pix not BSI ...
Quote from: shadowblade on August 27, 2017, 11:02:17 pmCorrelation does not imply causality. That Canon holds a market share advantage does not imply that it is due to keeping things in-house.Canon got a huge head start in digital with CMOS and full-frame, then with the 5D and 5D2, causing people to buy into the system. This led to Canon taking the lion's share of the high-end market in the early days; this has slowly bled away as Nikon caught up and, in some areas, overtook Canon, but, due to the shelf life of lenses and the expense of changing systems, still hold the advantage (if not as large as it was previously).It could just as easily have gone the other way - had Nikon been first off the ground with full-frame, CMOS and a camera competitive with MF film, they might be the market leqders now (and resting on their laurels) instead of Canon.
Quote from: hogloff on August 27, 2017, 11:07:02 pmWhere are you getting your figures from. Nikon's market share has been going down for years now...sitting currently at less than 25%. Canon's share has stayed steady at around 50%. be interesting to see if this changes...but even Nikon's projections do not indicate much change to this trend.
Quote from: scyth on August 27, 2017, 10:35:47 pmjust don't forget that Ph2Ph does not calculate per sensel PDR... so it is the same PDR assuming the ideal downsizing... and raw converters/post processing are not ideal math-wise once you start doing demosaicking and color transforms first.
Quote from: BernardLanguillier on August 27, 2017, 10:07:56 pmI continue to strongly dispute the proposition that it would be in the best interest of Sony not to sell their best sensors to Nikon. Very few of the sensors they would not sell in Nikon bodies would end up in Sony bodies. The cross selling btwn these 2 is much more limited than they seem to think. Sony would end up both losing an important income for their sensor division and also indirectly help strengthen the competitor Nikon would end up working with.
QuoteThe D850 sensor should indeed clearly put an end to this story... but it won't... because now they are coming up with the theory that 46mp isn't a high resolution sensor... and that the real best sensor of Sony will end up in these...
Quote from: henrikfoto on August 28, 2017, 03:37:08 amWith Canon at 50mp and Nikon at 45mp I think the new Sony r camera will make a real jump.I think we can expect more than 60mp.
Quote from: BernardLanguillier on August 28, 2017, 03:55:25 amRumors were saying 70mp.Now, the relevance of this needs to be assessed. There are very few wides that are able to resolve even 46mp well in my book. Even what may be the best wide available, the Nikon 19mm T/S may be challenged at that level of resolution. The situation of course differs for the latest tele lenses that have plenty of resolution.As a result, for wide applications, stitching becomes a much better way to reach significant increases of real detail.Another option is of course small MF such as the Fuji 23mm that will be fine at 100mp.Cheers,Bernard
Quote from: shadowblade on August 27, 2017, 11:26:55 pm25% by what? Units sold (making no distinction between high end and low end)? Gross sales? Net profit on camera bodies? Net profit on bodies and lenses? You'll get different market share figures depending on which measure you look at. It's common knowledge that Canon had flooded the low end with Rebels and xxD bodies, while Nikon has been improving the top end. But the low end is a dying sector.
Quote from: BJL on August 27, 2017, 09:53:23 pm... I think we can can stop worrying that Nikon is hampered by having to settle fpr whatever second-best sensors that Sony puts in its catalog. Maybe at times Canon hampers itself by insisting too much on doing everything in-house, it of course it could always drop that if it fell too far behind in sensor fab ability: Sony would love a huge customer like Canon.
Quote from: Jim Kasson on August 27, 2017, 11:30:02 pmBill and I don't assume ideal downsizing for our PDR normalization. We assume standard downsizing.
Quote from: scyth on August 28, 2017, 09:57:51 pmOK1) what is standard downsizing ?2) what kind of demosaick and color transforms you apply before downsizing ?
Quote from: BernardLanguillier on August 27, 2017, 10:07:56 pmAnd, once again, these Nikon naysayers are very quickly forgetting that the Nikon orders pretty funded for many many years the development of the great sensor technology we see today in APS-C and FX bodies. I am fully aware that mobile phones were another key funding stream, but there is a difference between a mobile phone sensor and one for a DSLR.
Quote from: davidgp on August 30, 2017, 04:50:07 am...Here you have a nice paper of evolution of sensor technology: https://semiengineering.com/cmos-image-sensors-cis-past-present-future/
Quote from: henrikfoto on August 30, 2017, 06:04:19 am"New technologies that are comming to sensors in the lastest years, like Aptina-like amplifiers, BSI (both in the 850, A7r II), or stacked sensor (A9), first released in smartphones."David! Sorry for my unknowingness, but could you explain what a stacked sensor is?Henrik
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