Epson SC P5000 Review

[Rand47]

Mark,

Thanks for the very thorough review of the P5000.  Your technical findings comport with my "sense" of the printer (especially in comparison to the P800).  I learned a few things, as well, re nozzle check settings, use with thicker papers, etc.  Thanks for including the "best practices" aspect of your experience with it.

The P5000 is by far the nicest printer to use, in terms of ease of use and image quality, of all the Epson printers I've owned.

Rand

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Rand, thanks and glad you found the review useful. Yes, the SC-P5000 is straightforward to use and produces high-end quality - no question about it.

[Jeff Kott]

Mark, in the review you said: "One nice new feature in the firmware is a “Paperless Nozzle Check” that one commissions from the Maintenance tab in the LCD panel."

Is this different in any way than the paperless nozzle check on the 4900?

[Mark D Segal]

I never saw such a feature in the 5 years that I owned a 4900; I wonder how that passed me by!  :-)

Anyhow, as you see it was "new" for me and it works fine.

Thanks for bringing to my attention.

[Wayne Fox]

The paperless nozzle check feature triggers an auto nozzle check.  With the 4900 I don't remember a user option to trigger one, but it's been many years since I used a 4900.

On the 5000, the printer performs a nozzle check when powered on, as well as when blacks are switched and there seems to be no way to disable these. It also has  "timer" which will trigger a nozzle check.  Supposedly that can be turned off, yet my printer seems to always check nozzles when I've been gone for a week or so and I wake it up (I've been leaving it powered on to avoid the startup nozzle checks).

I haven't had time to read through the review thoroughly yet, but my experience is the ANC function triggers false positives similarly to previous printers.  I haven't determined if it has been improved yet.  I have used this function a couple of times as a test, printing a nozzle check first then performing the paperless nozzle check.  Despite what appears to be a perfect printed nozzle check the printer has entered a cleaning cycle on a couple of occasions.

The printer does seem to be more frugal with ink when cleaning, despite quite a few cleans (especially the first 10 days) the ink supply hasn't dwindled as rapidly as I remember with the 4900. 

I've been using the printer for a few months now.  Initially my experience was extremely poor, constant multiple cleanings every time I powered it on.  After about 10 days however it settled down, and cleanings are rare.  I tend to use the printer frequently for several days at a time, then it might go a week or two without printing. I'm pretty happy with it now, although I wish Epson would allow the user to take complete control of nozzle checks.  Seems if I want to disable them and manage the process manually that option should be there.

[Jeff Kott]

With the 4900 I don't remember a user option to trigger one, but it's been many years since I used a 4900.

I'm not trying to belabor this point, but am trying to determine whether this function on the 5000 is different than  on my 4900.

On the 4900, when you turn it on there is an auto nozzle check. In addition to that, when you open up the Epson LFP control panel, under the Print Head Maintenance tab, there is a nozzle check option, when you click that you get a box which asks whether you want to do an auto nozzle check (paperless) or print a check pattern.

I only use the auto nozzle check, but when it determines there is a clogged nozzle, it identifies the clogged nozzle (it always shows two) and gives you the option to just do a regular cleaning of that nozzle or a power clean.

That seems like almost the exact functionality that Mark described for the 5000, so it seems that feature is the same. If it is somehow different, I would like to know because I always run a manual check on my 4900 before I print and if the printer has been idle for more than 4 or 5 days I almost always have to do some sort of cleaning.

[Mark D Segal]

Wayne and Jeff,

From what I can see re-reading my 4900 manual (I got rid of the actual printer before the P5000 came in - simply no room for both; as well the 4900 was kaput) and based on my two months of performance experience with the P5000, the procedures are very similar, but the performance is different. With the 4900 I turned off auto everything because it just went on and on with cleaning cycles when none were really needed. I think this is similar to the experience Wayne was mentioning. With the P5000, one CAN turn it all off (I mentioned the options in my review) but my experience indicates there is no need to and one should not. If there are deflected nozzles one should know about it before printing, and the specific machine I'm using performs well in this regard. I have been able to verify from printing check patterns at appropriate moments that when the auto detect system says there are deflected nozzles, it's true and the cleaning is needed. When the printer is specified (from the LCD) for the cleaning parameters I recommended in my review, I have found it most often doesn't need to proceed beyond two cycles, very infrequently the full three) for all to be in order. These are not power cleaning so they probably use very little ink, but Epson won't say how much. If, however, you experience head strikes, all bets are off and the amount of cleaning required could be more extensive to get all back to normal. On the whole, I think the auto cleaning behaviour of this model has been much improved relative to that of its predecessor. 

[Jeff Kott]

Thanks for the response Mark. You've explained what I was trying to understand.

[Wayne Fox]

To clarify a few points, the only nozzle checks you can disable are those the printer performs during the printing process.  All other checks cannot be disabled.  The printer will perform a nozzle check on startup or when it is awakened from sleep.  There seems to be some logic to this because it only performs this check if the printer has been powered off or asleep based on some time parameter (not sure how long that is).  it also performs a nozzle check when it switches between blacks.

The checks you can disable are those that are performed during the course of printing.  The options are periodically (not sure if this is time based, # of print based or volume of printing), or before each job.  Since the printer has already most likely checked the nozzles and has cleaned them if necessary, leaving this setting on will most likely not result in any additional cleanings. Leaving this on seems prudent.  If you print a lot then this would help catch a dropped nozzle in the middle of a large unattended run, pretty important.  If you print infrequently during the day, having the printer do a quick ANC before each job may catch a nozzle that has dropped while the printer sat idle.  I will say that I've had this setting to off since I installed the printer several months ago, and haven't had an issue with a dropped nozzle while the printer sat idle for several hours.

The only really useful setting to me is one that isn't available ... disabling all nozzle checks and allowing the user to manually control that process of checking and cleaning.  As long as it insists on checking/cleaning as often as it does, turning the other settings on or off really doesn't have much impact.

While initially my 5000 was cleaning all the time, after about 10 days it settled down and now rarely cleans.  As mark mentioned so far the 5000 appears to be an improvement of the 4900 in this area.  As far as reliability of auto nozzle checks, I'm still not sure, because the printer triggers a clean and doesn't provide an opportunity to evaluate how many and what nozzles are missing.  I have two saved print patterns, one a perfect nozzle pattern despite the printer cleaning and telling me after it cleaned there were missing nozzles and I should clean again.  The other one had a single nozzle with a slight deflection, and the printer forced me to do a power clean of all colors. This wouldn't have caused any visible detrimental effect in printing quality and may have easily cleared itself up after a few prints, but I had no choice, I had to run a 30 minute power clean.   I tried powering the machine off and back on to get around it, didn't work. That being said, the 4900's I have worked with seemed to want to clean all of the time and over time they would need constant cleaning.  This is much better.

[mearussi]

Mark, I want to thank you for one of the most thorough reviews I've ever seen anywhere (I can understand why it took two months). Especially beneficial are the gamut comparisons as they really help to give an idea of what's possible.

The one question I still have is how the gamut of the P5000 (I assume the ink set is the same as the P7000/9000?) compares to the Pro 2000/4000 (which I've also assumed is the same as the Pro 1000--is that true?).

[Mark D Segal]

Mark, I want to thank you for one of the most thorough reviews I've ever seen anywhere (I can understand why it took two months). Especially beneficial are the gamut comparisons as they really help to give an idea of what's possible.

The one question I still have is how the gamut of the P5000 (I assume the ink set is the same as the P7000/9000?) compares to the Pro 2000/4000 (which I've also assumed is the same as the Pro 1000--is that true?).

Hi mearussi, and thanks - glad you found the review useful. Yes, your premise is correct. The inkset and the printhead are the same in Epson's case for the 5000/7000/9000 and in Canon's case for the 1000/2000/4000. So information you read in my reviews about colour gamut for one of those models of one manufacturer would apply to the other two models of the same product line. Therefore you can work between my SC-P5000, Pro-1000 and Pro-2000 reviews to make comparisons where the same paper is used from one to the other. Within the SC-P5000 review itself, if you look at Figure 11 for Epson Legacy Baryta paper, the gamuts are of different size and shape. In this particular comparison, and in general I find gamut is widest for the 4900/5000 printer, followed by the Canon Pro-1000, followed by the P800. But there are some hues for which the Pro-1000 exceeds the SC-P5000 at least for Epson Legacy Baryta paper, which supports a very wide gamut where the profiles and inkset allow.

Recall, ColorThink Pro measures and portrays gamut volumes through the profiles, so in these numbers and diagrams you are seeing the combined impact of profile/inkset/paper behaviour. It's best to use these numbers and diagrams as guidance and not be hung-up on small differences between them, as some differences are due to variances in the application of methodologies (for example Canon doesn't profile Epson paper), while others are real. For the part that is real, you need some fairly substantial differences of gamut volume to see the impact when comparing real photographs. 

[mearussi]

Mark, thank you, that was what I was thinking that it would be difficult to tell them apart.

So regarding the main concern of head plugging, did you notice any improvement over the 4900 (you mentioned the printer doing quite a few auto head cleanings)?

[Mark D Segal]

So regarding the main concern of head plugging, did you notice any improvement over the 4900 (you mentioned the printer doing quite a few auto head cleanings)?

My view of this matter is as I described it in the article. Recall: I owned a 4900 for five years and I have this new 5000 sitting here for just over two months. I can't draw any further conclusions yet.

[Theodoros Papageorgiou]

Mark, thank you for your detailed review!
It is very useful that you included the key distinguishing factors amongst P5000 and P800.
From my view the only problem with P5000 is that it is priced much more than P800 and too close with P7000. So I'd go for P800 or P7000.

[Mark D Segal]

Theodoros,

You are welcome, glad you found it useful.

I don't know where you live, but basing this on the USA for now, on the B&H website there is $1000 difference between the P7000 and the P5000, so I would consider that non-trivial and worthwhile spending only if you need a 24 inch printer. The P7000 is also a very much larger machine, so depending on your space, size may be a consideration.

Right now the P800 is $900 (after rebate) plus $200 for the optional roll feeder, so $500 less than the P5000 after its rebate. For the difference of $500, the P5000 gives you ten inks instead of 8, a built-in automatic mechanism governing the movement of the roll feed, internal roll paper cutter, a larger print-head with higher print speed, a more refined printhead cleaning mechanism (can clean in pairs of colours rather than the whole head only), the economies of much larger ink tanks in terms of cost per ml of ink, and finally an apparently more robust build quality because the P5000 is designed for production, while the P800 is designed for more casual usage. If these additional features of the P5000 matter to you, the $500 price difference would seem to be well worth it.

The bottom line of course, apart from any budget constraint, is to buy the feature set you need or prefer.

[espeekay]

Regarding the recommendations for P800 vs P5000: I am an infrequent printer needing to upgrade from my Epson 4000, considering either P800 or P5000. I love the vacuum platen, built in cutter, of the higher end old printer. I realize I would waste a lot of ink cleaning (I live in a dry environment) if I purchased the P5000, but Ink for this printer is dramatically less expensive than for the P800. I found discounted prices of $55 for an 80 ml P800 cartridge vs $87 for 200ml P5000. Another way to look at this is that you would get 126ml of p800 ink for the price of 200ml of p5000 ink. So, if I set the machine for biweekly automatic checks and cleans, how long would it take to go through the "free" 74ml ink per cartridge? 

[Mark D Segal]

Regarding the recommendations for P800 vs P5000: I am an infrequent printer needing to upgrade from my Epson 4000, considering either P800 or P5000. I love the vacuum platen, built in cutter, of the higher end old printer. I realize I would waste a lot of ink cleaning (I live in a dry environment) if I purchased the P5000, but Ink for this printer is dramatically less expensive than for the P800. I found discounted prices of $55 for an 80 ml P800 cartridge vs $87 for 200ml P5000. Another way to look at this is that you would get 126ml of p800 ink for the price of 200ml of p5000 ink. So, if I set the machine for biweekly automatic checks and cleans, how long would it take to go through the "free" 74ml ink per cartridge?

You're making presumptions about cleaning requirements for which there is inadequate supporting data because the printer is too new on the market (not enough accumulated experience and data), nor does Epson inform about how much ink various kinds of cleanings consume for the reason I stated in the review. If you are prepared to do a nozzle check twice weekly AND at the same time you run at least one US-Letter size print that draws from all the channels (you can download a template for this from the Marrutt USA 4900 maintenance page), I expect (but cannot assure) based on what I see to date that there should be little ink consumed for cleaning, and the amount of ink used for this kind of maintenance will probably amount to a bit over 1 ml per week. If it were me, I wouldn't base a decision between these two models on a relative unknown, in this case for now about ink used for maintenance. I think it will take at least six months of accumulated experience from a large number of users in different situations to make more definitive statements about potential ink consumption for maintenance with this model.

[Wayne Fox]

As usual Mark makes an excellent point.  It will take some time to determine how  the p5000 will fare in regard to missing nozzles when compared to other models, especially the 4900.

That being said, the 4900 was the worst printer Epson has ever manufactured regarding missing nozzles and cleaning. To improve on that shouldn’t be much of a challenge.  As to whether they can get to the performance of the 3880, probably not, but the p9000 is definitely better than the 9900 and it appears the p800 is at least competitive with the 3880.

All we can do is offer anecdotal information as time moves on to those inquiring.  I’ve had my p5000 for 4 months now.  It is not frequently used.  I will print on it several days in a row, but then it may sit for some time.  This is similar to my p9000.  While terrible for the first few days with frequent and repeated cleanings, my p5000 rarely cleans itself any longer.  This is the first Epson printer I have felt comfortable with the ANC function not constantly triggering unnecessary cleans.  I leave my p5000 on all of the time, when I wake it from sleep it will check the nozzles.  It has only cleaned twice in the past 6 weeks, they were very quick.

Obviously as more users offer their experience we can begin to understand how improved this printer might be over it’s predecessor. I’m very happy with mine, and glad I moved from the p800 to the p5000.

[Theodoros Papageorgiou]

I don't know where you live, but basing this on the USA for now, on the B&H website there is $1000 difference between the P7000 and the P5000...

Right now the P800 is $900 (after rebate) plus $200 for the optional roll feeder, so $500 less than the P5000 after its rebate. For the difference of $500,...

Here in Greece the current pricing scheme is € 1232 for P800 with roll offer, € 2480 for P5000 and € 3100 for P7000. You get two P800s with roll for one P5000! Also, only € 620 difference for the 24" goodness.

[Farmer]

Remember you get a lot more ink with the 5000 compared to the 800, and use bigger (cheaper per ml) cartridges.  Of course, you need to be able to use that ink in a reasonable amount of time (ideally 6 months) for that to be an option.