What solution to handling a large image catalog (database) with Capture One Pro?

[Ellis Vener]

I am seriously contemplating switching from Lightroom handling both my  raw image processing and cataloging to using C1 pro as my raw image processor. The hold up is the lack - and this is  according to bonafide C1 professionals - of a decent cataloging library management system. I What would be ideal is to do my raw processing in C1 Pro and then have those processing settings respected in Lightroom but that appears to be an impossibility and I want a integrated system.

My plan is not to reprocess my existing library in C1 Pro but to start using it for new images.

So what are your solutions? is there a third party solution for seamlessly cataloging C1 Pro processed images ? Would Fotoware do it?

[Jglaser757]

I switched from LR last weekend. I dont have the experience of pro C1 users, but as a transitioning/former user I can tell you what I am doing. I bit the bullet and am cataloging Lr buy year into C1(a separate catalog for each year). I did try one massive c1 catalog from LR but that crashed and burned. I decided to use c1 for management because its easier keeping all files in one software. while organizing images in C1, i redistributed them to different folders and not once did a lose a synch between the catalog and the sidecar,xmp file. This happens all the time in LR to me..its a slightly different workflow but finding things in the c1 catalog is easier for me.

My workflow so far:
I flattened all LR images and converted them to tiffs. This includes any psd or psbs from PS.. I keep all working files separtely in a folder for PS , so there was no need to worry about that.
I created a catalog for each year for C1. Most if not all labels and filters transferred. including metadata and keywords..
I created a new keyword groups in c1.
I shoot IR also and c1 allows for wb straight from Raw files. (Lr does not wb properly so i would open files in NX2 wb and create tiffs, then import into LR). I deleted all IR tiffs in LR and my HD.(creating 1 tb of free space which i needed).
Black and whites are superior to LR. all my BW have deeper blacks.
Tech support has answered any question very quickly during the day and thats without me actually purchasing the software yet(im on day 7 of 30 free trial.
Processing is so much quicker.

More to follow if you want to know!

[BobShaw]

The hold up is the lack - and this is  according to bonafide C1 professionals - of a decent cataloging library management system.

That is my concern also.
A lot of people get hung up on raw conversion and image editing but that is not the main reason I would use any of Lightroom, CaptureOne or Aperture. I have Photoshop for editing along with other programmes like Phocus for raw.

A robust catalogue that will handle 80,000 plus raw images in one catalogue with Smart Albums is essential to me. I have tried to migrate from Aperture to Capture One twice and it has failed. It also does not support the Smart Albums. It also needs to support all cameras from the earliest digital to all medium format which is another show stopper. Smart albums means that i can create a view based on certain keywords, such as all landscapes of the South Coast since 2007.

Still using Aperture which is a rock solid catalogue and waiting for a solution.

[syncrasy]

The hold up is the lack - and this is  according to bonafide C1 professionals - of a decent cataloging library management system.

Curious, have you considered Media Pro + C1 (round trip via "empty" C1 sessions, as described on the Media Pro forums)? Or does Media Pro not have certain DAM features you need?

[myotis]

Curious, have you considered Media Pro + C1 (round trip via "empty" C1 sessions, as described on the Media Pro forums)? Or does Media Pro not have certain DAM features you need?

As the person who drove that thread about using an empty session, which at the time I thought was the solution, I now have to raise two issues with it.

1. Phase One broke the integration between Media Pro and Capture One when they released V10 of Capture One. I raised this as a "bug"  during the beta of C1v10 (Phase one didn't respond)  and others have raised it since the release - but its still broken.  You can still share metadata, but Media Pro no longer sees the C1 edits. The MP previews are still generated with C1, so they look like the previews generated in C1, but don't show any edits.

2.  The empty session idea uses a virtual link to the Raw file which means that the edit with option (i.e. editing with Photoshop) doesn't work with "empty sessions".

Two other issues that have disillusioned me a bit are:

1.When the empty session  thread was live I contacted Phase one to ask them why they didn't formally promote this approach to integration, and pointed them to the thread. They looked at the thread, sounded positive about it, and agreed to produce some tutorials/webinars based on the thread - but nothing has happened.

2. In August 2016 I identified a bug that prevented me viewing *.mov files in Media Pro. Phase One agreed it was a bug, but 7-8 months later it still hasn't been fixed and I have had to look elsewhere for a DAM solution.

Media pro is an excellent DAM at its core, but it needs updated, and it seems obvious that Phase One have no real interest in it or in meeting their advertising claim of integration with C1.

I now use C1 catalogues (one for each year) and just use Media Pro as a "Master catalogue" with no attempt to integrate with C1, other than metadata, but then C1 can share meta data with any program that can read XMP files (actually MP and C1 share some extra colour labels).

C1 cataloguing slowly improves with each point release, and although clumsy compared to a DAM, it is very fast once loaded (faster than Lightroom for me) and it works fine as a low level DAM for managing files while processing.

I've recently started to use NeoFinder as a DAM, which is deceptively powerful. It also looks as if the PhotoMechanic DAM is getting closer, and as I already use Photo Mechanic, that might well be where I end up.

C1 is great, and there is no prospect of me giving it up, but Phase one have been a great disappointment in their approach to Media Pro, nd the empty session solution, isn't really a solution at all :-(

Cheers,

Graham

[myotis]

The hold up is the lack - and this is  according to bonafide C1 professionals - of a decent cataloging library management system.

The C1 cataloguing improves with every point release and any comments about catalogue problems, quickly become dated.  There are also several reports from  people switching from LR to C1 catalogues who seem perfectly happy with it.

I gave up with C1 catalogues because they seemed so buggy, and moved to using a Media Pro catalogue and C1 Sessions (see my other post here) However, with increasing numbers of positive comments about C1 catalogues from people running much bigger catalogues than I need, I have moved back to C1 for every day cataloguing, with, so far no problems, but my catalogues are small (less than 20,000 images per catalogue)

An on going issue is that the catalogues are slow to load, but once loaded they run much faster than my  duplicate Lightroom catalogues.

So, while it depends on exactly what you need, I'm not sure if this "broad brush" concern about the poor cataloguing, when switching from LR to C1 is valid any more.

Cheers,

Graham

[john beardsworth]

It also looks as if the PhotoMechanic DAM is getting closer, and as I already use Photo Mechanic, that might well be where I end up.

Don't hold your breath - it's been "now in active development!" for close to a decade!

[myotis]

Don't hold your breath - it's been "now in active development!" for close to a decade!

Yes, but they are still working on it every day, with the version they presented at a trade show in 2011 essentially unchanged. The time in-between being  mainly spent working on speed and reliability.

And the tone has changed recently to encouraging users to look forward to version 6 rather than a flat refusal to speculate/discuss release dates.

Of course, maybe I am just misreading the signs  :-(

Cheers,
Graham

[john beardsworth]

Yes, but they are still working on it every day, with the version they presented at a trade show in 2011 essentially unchanged. The time in-between being  mainly spent working on speed and reliability.

And the tone has changed recently to encouraging users to look forward to version 6 rather than a flat refusal to speculate/discuss release dates.

Of course, maybe I am just misreading the signs  :-(

Cheers,
Graham

6 years working on speed and reliability, yeah right. The big difference seems that now when they're asked about the catalogue version they switch to talking about version 6. I'm sure that new version will continue to be an excellent browser - if a browser is what you want - but if they ever add any cataloguing it will always suffer from only displaying images in their unadjusted state. And surely the world has moved on from workflows like that?

[Jglaser757]

6 years working on speed and reliability, yeah right. The big difference seems that now when they're asked about the catalogue version they switch to talking about version 6. I'm sure that new version will continue to be an excellent browser - if a browser is what you want - but if they ever add any cataloguing it will always suffer from only displaying images in their unadjusted state. An surely the world has moved on from workflows like that?

For me, Its much quicker than LR and more precise. I am not sure what you are referring to as far "unadjusted state" in the browser because I see all new adjustments there as well as those imported from LR. Downside is that catalogs cannot be large.

[john beardsworth]

For me, Its much quicker than LR and more precise. I am not sure what you are referring to as far "unadjusted state" in the browser because I see all new adjustments there as well as those imported from LR. Downside is that catalogs cannot be large.

We were referring to PhotoMechanic.

[Jglaser757]

We were referring to PhotoMechanic.

ahh,,never used it. I heard of it a few years ago and never heard anything else since this thread. Maybe its a High end Camera and Professional studio photographer thing.

[john beardsworth]

It's a bit of a digression to discuss it much more here, but PM is a very popular program with press photographers because it's very quick for reviewing and keywording/captioning images. It has excellent features geared specifically to that market ("code replacement" is one). For years though, they have said they were going to produce a catalogue version which might have many strengths. But if it ever does materialize, just imagine being unable to see your edits in the program you're using to manage your pictures. Whatever the faults of C1's catalogue, that isn't one of them.

[Jglaser757]

It's a bit of a digression to discuss it much more here, but PM is a very popular program with press photographers because it's very quick for reviewing and keywording/captioning images. It has excellent features geared specifically to that market ("code replacement" is one). For years though, they have said they were going to produce a catalogue version but if it ever does materialize, just imagine being unable to see your edits in the program you're using to manage your pictures. Whatever the faults of C1's catalogue, that isn't one of them.

Yes,,i do not want to hijack a thread. Trying to imagine the inability to see my edits in a browser doesnt make sense. Thats ridiculous at this stage of digital management with so many products out there. Maybe the company cannot afford to produce the programming for the software? Or maybe they dont see it as a priority? Maybe they want you to buy a different software? Honestly, if I wasnt so enamored by C1, i would be still be dumping LR and using bridge. I am so tired of the issues of lost folders and dumbing down the software.

[myotis]

6 years working on speed and reliability, yeah right. The big difference seems that now when they're asked about the catalogue version they switch to talking about version 6. I'm sure that new version will continue to be an excellent browser - if a browser is what you want - but if they ever add any cataloguing it will always suffer from only displaying images in their unadjusted state. An surely the world has moved on from workflows like that?

Yes, it does sound a long time.  So I guess we wait and see.

Cheers,

Graham

[sjprg]

For a company that has possibly the best raw conversion software on the market it is really inconceivable to me that their data handling is so bad, and even some of their mouse functions have basic errors in the applications. Its almost as if the programmers they have hired lack the background skills in the complete keyboard and mouse key functions and character set, or is that a subject no longer a part of the curriculum. They need at least one programmer who is fluent in assembly language to catch these kind of errors.
See http://www.simotime.com/asc2ebc1.htm