Dropping My X1D Order, Affirming My GFX Order

[hogloff]

Thanks for this objective comment.

It's most interesting that Fuji makes lenses for Hasselblad. Now they are competitors in the mini-MF mirrorless area 

Sony makes sensors for everyone, yet they compete with their cameras.

[Paul2660]

Most past Fuji's will work with any style of remote that plugs into the USB3 port (using the long section of the port which is really just a USB2 connection).  The 90 from Fuji is very basic just a trigger.  I have already confirmed that the GFX only has a max of 1/30 for timed long exposures, which is a bit stupid (why Fuji?) So again an intervalometer will be needed to do any type of long night astro work, (stacking).  I will wait to see if the current line of non Fuji brand intervalometers which work with all the other X series cameras will work on the GFX via the USB3 port. 

In the past Fuji also programed the mic port to accept most non remote protocols,  i.e. Canon and Nikon, but not sure if this will be the case with the GFX however I assume it does have a mic port.

It's a total shame that Canon, Nikon and now Fuji still don't get the fact that by stopping the timed exposures to 1/30 extremely limits the camera for long exposure work.  Plus the programming is not that hard to do it based on the the fact the Magic Lantern has added such a feature to all the  Canon cameras that they support.  Nikon at least makes a good remote intervalometer (as does Canon).

But it just bugs me when all these companies state "full intervalometer support" yet they don't have a clue as to what most photographers would be using such a device for, i.e. longer expsoures past 1/30 in a stacked series.

Paul Caldwell

[armand]

Most past Fuji's will work with any style of remote that plugs into the USB3 port (using the long section of the port which is really just a USB2 connection).  The 90 from Fuji is very basic just a trigger.  I have already confirmed that the GFX only has a max of 1/30 for timed long exposures, which is a bit stupid (why Fuji?) So again an intervalometer will be needed to do any type of long night astro work, (stacking).  I will wait to see if the current line of non Fuji brand intervalometers which work with all the other X series cameras will work on the GFX via the USB3 port. 

In the past Fuji also programed the mic port to accept most non remote protocols,  i.e. Canon and Nikon, but not sure if this will be the case with the GFX however I assume it does have a mic port.

It's a total shame that Canon, Nikon and now Fuji still don't get the fact that by stopping the timed exposures to 1/30 extremely limits the camera for long exposure work.  Plus the programming is not that hard to do it based on the the fact the Magic Lantern has added such a feature to all the  Canon cameras that they support.  Nikon at least makes a good remote intervalometer (as does Canon).

But it just bugs me when all these companies state "full intervalometer support" yet they don't have a clue as to what most photographers would be using such a device for, i.e. longer expsoures past 1/30 in a stacked series.

Paul Caldwell

Do you mean 30 sec and not 1/30 sec?

Regarding the remote, the current X system accepts remotes that have the Canon protocol, I'm not sure about Nikon. As you said, they work with both the mic plug or with the USB.

[Paul2660]

Yes. 30 sec. sorry about that.

Paul

[Michael Erlewine]

I found this article about the GFX 50s sensor worth understanding, in particular the part where they say that unlike the standard 35mm FF 50mm sensor with a 4.1 nm, the GFX sensor is 5.3nm. Here are some extracts:

"Fujifilm just launched a new series about the Fujifilm GFX, the “GFX Technologies” series. Episode one is all about the GFX sensor, which is different compared to the other 44×33 MF sensor, because:

"The sensor itself has the surface size of 43.8×32.9mm, but the shape of the sensor unit is different for the GFX 50S. Typically the sensor is mounted to the silicon circuit with terminals placed on both sides of the sensor. But in the case of GFX, the sensor is mounted to the silicon circuit with the terminals placed on the back side of the sensor. This allows not only the sensor unit, but also the silicon circuit to be smaller in size.

"In order to effectively process the lights, the size of micro-lenses haven been reduced and more spaces have been created between each pixel. This is one reason why the images appear so sharp when taken by GFX even though the pixel counts are the same. You may wonder about the negative impact for sensitivity and S/N if the micro-lenses are smaller in size. There is no need for such concern. The pixel size is big enough to receive enough lights without making micro-lenses any bigger. This optimization is only possible for the medium format sensor.

"The photic saturation point of the sensor is extended and wider dynamic range is realized as a result. The dynamic range becomes 1/3 step wider. This wider dynamic range is a result of extended photic saturation point, so the images are 1/3 tougher against over-exposure. This extended photic saturation becomes most effective when the sensitivity is set at ISO 100

"The camera is not equipped with the phase-detection pixels, but the autofocus speed is quite fast for a medium format camera nonetheless. One of the reasons for this is the increased sensor readout speed from 130fps to 200fps. Our sensor is customized so that faster readout is realized during autofocus. The speed is slower than DSLRs with dedicated phase detection autofocus, but it is much more accurate than that of the DSLR."

The article with photos, etc. is here:

http://fujifilm-x.com/de/x-stories/gfx-technologies-1/

[hubell]

I found this article about the GFX 50s sensor worth understanding, in particular the part where they say that unlike the standard 50mm sensor with a 4.1 nm, the GFX sensor is 5.3nm.

It appears to be a comparison between the Sony MF 50 MP sensor used in the GFX (and the X1D)and a 50MP sensor used in a  FF 35mm sensor (i.e., like Canon's). You have to read the fine print, because otherwise you might conclude that Fuji was comparing its 50MP sensor with that in the X1D.

[voidshatter]

It's a total shame that Canon, Nikon and now Fuji still don't get the fact that by stopping the timed exposures to 1/30 extremely limits the camera for long exposure work.  Plus the programming is not that hard to do it based on the the fact the Magic Lantern has added such a feature to all the  Canon cameras that they support.  Nikon at least makes a good remote intervalometer (as does Canon).

Why? The Nikon D810A can go for 900 seconds. The D4s, if I remember correctly, can do T mode after a firmware update. I don't see the need of intervalometer any more.

[Michael Erlewine]

I found this article about the GFX 50s sensor worth understanding, in particular the part where they say that unlike the standard 35mm FF 50mm sensor with a 4.1 nm, the GFX sensor is 5.3nm. Here are some extracts:
http://fujifilm-x.com/de/x-stories/gfx-technologies-1/

I tried to make it clear.

[voidshatter]

Fuji manager sort of confirms Sony is working on a new 100+ Megapixel 44x33mm sensor

That brand dedicated to crop sensors huh 

Cinema5D interviewed a Fuji manager whom confirmed that the next generation 44x33mm Sony sensor will likely have 100+ Megapixel and 4K video recording support. So while the next generation Full Frame sensor could have around 70 Megapixel the 44x33mm medium format sensor will have 30% higher resolution compared to FF.

[hubell]

I tried to make it clear.

I know, but the Fuji article confused me at first.

[Paul2660]

Why? The Nikon D810A can go for 900 seconds. The D4s, if I remember correctly, can do T mode after a firmware update. I don't see the need of intervalometer any more.

No plans for eithe a D4s or 810A. Also no reason Nikon can't update the internal intervalometer in the D810 via firmware. Maybe one of the reasons for their current financial issues. The 810A's main design is for deep space Astro work which I don't do. Sure it has a bit better signal to noise results over the 810 but not enough to matter for 2K more and a possibly very limited use outside of deep space Astro work.   

Paul Caldwell 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Void,

Thanks for the link. Very interesting to hear a Fuji manager in his own language. Yes, they essentially confirm 100+ MP on the 44x33 mm sensor, but I see this as a natural thing. It is great that Fuji designs the GFX for > 100 MP resolution.

Just to say. I don't really see I have a need for that kind of resolution. On the other hand, I don't think that there is any problem with resolution, except filling up my hard dives and disk development is certainly not standing still. Also, if I need less pixels I can choose a smaller format and save a lot of money, and weight…

If 16-24 MP is all what I need, an APS-C or 4/3 system looks awfully good!

Best regards
Erik

Fuji manager sort of confirms Sony is working on a new 100+ Megapixel 44x33mm sensor

That brand dedicated to crop sensors huh 

[voidshatter]

No plans for eithe a D4s or 810A. Also no reason Nikon can't update the internal intervalometer in the D810 via firmware. Maybe one of the reasons for their current financial issues. The 810A's main design is for deep space Astro work which I don't do. Sure it has a bit better signal to noise results over the 810 but not enough to matter for 2K more and a possibly very limited use outside of deep space Astro work.   

Paul Caldwell

You have spare cash for a Pentax K1 but not for a Nikon D810A? The Nikon D810A is also very good at general photography outside deep space astral work. In addition to wedding sessions, I use it to take pictures of my family as well.

Sigma is probably going to make a 18mm f/1.8 Art but I don't think it can be guaranteed for the Pentax K1 mount.

As for the D810, you could use the built-in "interval timer shooting" function in conjunction with 30 seconds per exposure and do stacking in post-processing. You don't have to get a D4s or D5 but the point is to let you know that Nikon does support T(ime) mode.

[voidshatter]

Hi Void,

Thanks for the link. Very interesting to hear a Fuji manager in his own language. Yes, they essentially confirm 100+ MP on the 44x33 mm sensor, but I see this as a natural thing. It is great that Fuji designs the GFX for > 100 MP resolution.

Just to say. I don't really see I have a need for that kind of resolution. On the other hand, I don't think that there is any problem with resolution, except filling up my hard dives and disk development is certainly not standing still. Also, if I need less pixels I can choose a smaller format and save a lot of money, and weight…

If 16-24 MP is all what I need, an APS-C or 4/3 system looks awfully good!

Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik,

It would be interesting to see if the X1D and GFX can generate sufficient cash flow for the continued development of Sony CMOS in the 44x33 mini-MF format. But this could potentially be a threat to the 54x40 format if the sales of the IQ3100/IQ1100/H6D100c do not warrant fast advancement of these fullframe sensors. The top-end product line does need a sufficient time window for the life-cycle of each flagship product to "survive and lead" long enough to justify its cost. No one would be happy to dump $40,000 into an IQ3100 only to find it "obsolete" in 18 months or so, except the exceptionally rich ones.

As for the megapixels, yes I agree with you - 24 MP is probably gonna be good enough for a while until mobile phones catch up. Currently drone photography has become more and more popular so the laws and restrictions will be enforced eventually. I can see the direction that telephoto lenses with outstanding image stabilization could be vital to counter the upcoming laws and restrictions (if telephoto lenses are not censored). In such case, the 4/3 format systems do look awfully good!

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Void,

I am not sure. My guess is that IQ3 100MP buyers want 100 MP, I think they want the best technology available today, and I think it is quiet OK.

Personally, I would suggest that say 40-50 MP is quite OK for my print sizes, but I still see a lot of aliasing at that resolution, even on 24x36 mm. So I think it makes a lot of sense to increase resolution say 95 MP on 24x36, just to get rid of aliasing.

For Fuji in particular it makes a lot of sense to go to say 44x33 mm at 100 MP as their normal offering is 16 MP at APS-C. So, going to 44x33 mm is a major step with an obvious lot of benefits. But, going from 24x36 mm at around 40 MP to 50 MP small medium format may not make a lot of sense. So, I think that next generation of the 44x33 mm sensors needs a hike on resolution and 100MP would be just fine.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik,

It would be interesting to see if the X1D and GFX can generate sufficient cash flow for the continued development of Sony CMOS in the 44x33 mini-MF format. But this could potentially be a threat to the 54x40 format if the sales of the IQ3100/IQ1100/H6D100c do not warrant fast advancement of these fullframe sensors. The top-end product line does need a sufficient time window for the life-cycle of each flagship product to "survive and lead" long enough to justify its cost. No one would be happy to dump $40,000 into an IQ3100 only to find it "obsolete" in 18 months or so, except the exceptionally rich ones.

As for the megapixels, yes I agree with you - 24 MP is probably gonna be good enough for a while until mobile phones catch up. Currently drone photography has become more and more popular so the laws and restrictions will be enforced eventually. I can see the direction that telephoto lenses with outstanding image stabilization could be vital to counter the upcoming laws and restrictions (if telephoto lenses are not censored). In such case, the 4/3 format systems do look awfully good!

[voidshatter]

I am not sure. My guess is that IQ3 100MP buyers want 100 MP, I think they want the best technology available today, and I think it is quiet OK.

Phase One P65+ 60MP (Sep 2008 - Sep 2010) $40,000 for 24 months
Leaf Aptus-II 12/R 80MP (Sep 2010 - Jan 2016) $32,000 for 63 months
Phase One IQ3100 100MP (Jan 2016 - ?) $44,000 for ? months

So that you can see the value of the IQ3 100MP highly depends on the release date of the 100+MP 44x33 sensor. Given that the earthquake caused significant delays for the shipment of the 100MP sensors for both Phase One and Hasselblad, the actual time spent in the consumers' hands is essentially reduced by almost one year for most pre-orders.

[Paul2660]

Void.

We are getting way off track here. But for sure the K1 has much value for Astro work than the D810 or 810A for the type of photography I am doing. But I do agree it's tragic Sigma has choosen not to continue their excellent Art line for Pentax. The K1 long ago replaced my Nikons for anything but small bird work.

Paul Caldwell

[Steve Hendrix]

Phase One P65+ 60MP (Sep 2008 - Sep 2010) $40,000 for 24 months
Leaf Aptus-II 12/R 80MP (Sep 2010 - Jan 2016) $32,000 for 63 months
Phase One IQ3100 100MP (Jan 2016 - ?) $44,000 for ? months

So that you can see the value of the IQ3 100MP highly depends on the release date of the 100+MP 44x33 sensor. Given that the earthquake caused significant delays for the shipment of the 100MP sensors for both Phase One and Hasselblad, the actual time spent in the consumers' hands is essentially reduced by almost one year for most pre-orders.

For Phase One customers, they were delayed by about 2 months, not 12 months.


Steve Hendrix/CI

[voidshatter]

For Phase One customers, they were delayed by about 2 months, not 12 months.


Steve Hendrix/CI

Brand new purchases shipped with higher priority but upgrade orders suffered significant delays.

I pre-ordered my upgrade towards the IQ3 100MP in London on 5th Feb 2016 and cancelled my preorder on 21st July 2016, and still had no clue when it would have been shipped. By the time I posted the long exposure issue it wasn't readily available. My impression is that it became readily available by the end of 2016.

[Steve Hendrix]

Brand new purchases shipped with higher priority but upgrade orders suffered significant delays.

I pre-ordered my upgrade towards the IQ3 100MP in London on 5th Feb 2016 and cancelled my preorder on 21st July 2016, and still had no clue when it would have been shipped. By the time I posted the long exposure issue it wasn't readily available. My impression is that it became readily available by the end of 2016.

There was a bias toward new order priority, yes. I cannot account for any situation with the dealer you ordered through.

The vast majority of our IQ3 100 orders were upgraders - right from the start. And none of them experienced any delay like you did.

The average delivery time for our orders was 8 - 10 weeks up until the earthquake. Afterward, from July on, it was shorter, 2-4 weeks on average.


Steve Hendrix/CI