Buying old medium format backs

[Dahlmann]

Hi guys.

I'm thinking of invest in a older digital back that i can mount on a Hasselblad 503cw.

I'm a slow photographer and mostly I sitting in my studio and doing still life. Flowers and sometimes portraits. Landscape i do with my d810.

The reason to buy a digital back is more for fun and i have done some looking around and i like the look of those old ccd backs. 

I also like to have the opportunity to shoot film every now and then.

I do print my work up to 17x20 inch and I do sell my prints.

What backs to stay away from?, and what backs have a good reputation?!
 What type of problem can i run in to when i buy and using 5-10 years old backs.

I do think the old phase one looks a bit flat compare to mamiya zd or leaf aptus 75s backs.

The two backs I mention above is the ones I so far leaning towards. 

So what do you guys think?
Nothing is written in stone here so I  am open for suggestions..

My budget is around 3 grand for the back


Kind regards Daniel



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[BobShaw]

For probably less money you could get an H3D camera and integrated back and the version I shoots film also.

[uaiomex]

For printing 17"X and spending $3K you will not got any better than the D810.
If you are seeking to have back the thrill of using MF, any back 10 years old or newer will do.
Just saying.

[landscapephoto]

For probably less money you could get an H3D camera and integrated back and the version I shoots film also.

And there is an adapter to use your lenses on that camera.

[Chris Livsey]

You are not going to pick up a H integrated digital for the price of an older V fit back IMHO and then spend again for the adapter, which does work well but is prone to slipping clutch in S/H examples.
My P20 back still performs in the "fat pixel" CCD stakes and gives the "authentic" square output and they are reasonable, so reasonable it's not worth selling!!
 I would say it depends on your viewfinder crop tolerance which back and also which software you are comfortable with, you may want the longer exposure of the + series in phase for your interior work, the premium is much less than it used to be.

[Dahlmann]

You are not going to pick up a H integrated digital for the price of an older V fit back IMHO and then spend again for the adapter, which does work well but is prone to slipping clutch in S/H examples.
My P20 back still performs in the "fat pixel" CCD stakes and gives the "authentic" square output and they are reasonable, so reasonable it's not worth selling!!
 I would say it depends on your viewfinder crop tolerance which back and also which software you are comfortable with, you may want the longer exposure of the + series in phase for your interior work, the premium is much less than it used to be.

I do struggling a bit to understand what you mean. I use lightroom cc and photoshop. That's pretty much what I understood. Can you simplify it a bit for me?! SORRY.

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[Dahlmann]

I was not clear in my post.  I don't have a hassy body yet. What type hasselblad body's are best for digital backs. I do like the older bodies..

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[Dahlmann]

Thanks for your answer.

I do not like those plastic bodies I prefer the old classic ones..

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[Dahlmann]

I friend did show me a couple or pic he took with the mamiya zd back and I really liked the look of the file. It Nearly looked like film. I think it was taken with mamiya 645 afd and the 80 mm 2.8

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[UlfKrentz]

You may also look at the Mamiya RZ, they are dirt cheap and the glass has a very organic look. I´d go with the Leaf back (ZD was Leaf technology as well). Not sure if it makes any sense as business invest but for the pleasure to work with MF, why not? Cheers!

[Joe Towner]

V mount backs always seem to command a good price premium compared to H and M mount.  There are a number of models that you can get, it's just a matter of one of them coming up and being available long enough to find and purchase.

First step is to get some files from the Leaf, PhaseOne and Hasselblad options & compare which files you like better - Don't worry about the model, worry about the color & editing workflow.  Some folks prefer CaptureOne, some prefer the colors from the Hasselblad & deal with Phocus.  That should really help you narrow down the options.

Generally speaking, digital backs will work as long as you give them fresh batteries.  The moving parts are in the body, so they'll last.

[Chris Livsey]

I do struggling a bit to understand what you mean. I use lightroom cc and photoshop. That's pretty much what I understood. Can you simplify it a bit for me?! SORRY.

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Simply, Phase One backs produce of their best using Capture One, if that is not a program you are familiar with there will be a learning curve which may limit you to start.
I had assumed you had a V platform since you specifically mentioned the 503CW, the H series does integrate better with digital backs although the Hasselblad V series fit backs from Hasselblad are seamless.
Actually it is hard to say which back no one would recommend, all are possible, it is down to the look and the software and availability, ideally from a dealer for a comforting warranty period and support if you are new to the game.

 

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

Also consider the price of a potential refresh on the camera body.  A v might need a calibration service to keep tolerances tight to a digital back.  It's more demanding than film.  I bought an H1 setup for an insane price...but I spent another $1000 in service having key parts replaced a year later. 
The p25 backs are nice too.  You can find those for some good prices online. 

I highly recommend getting together with a photographer that has a similar setup or renting, or going to a dealer and trying the gear out.  Make sure it feels right.  Especially for studio work, even older backs give amazing results.  I personally still think they look better than any 35mm camera result out there.  The technical difference has shrunk, and the performance and feature difference is completely in favor of high end 35mm.  Like you say, the workflow and mind set is totally different.  I prefer medium format for that as well.  It slows me way down.  Sometimes that is desireable. 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

My experience is with the Phase One P45+ back on the Hasselblad 555/ELD. What I have found is:

• It can give great results
• But so can a 24 MP DSLR type of camera
• Focusing is difficult and not very reliable, OK, practice, eyesight, viewfinder loupes
• I used to use a Zeiss 3X monocular with the PM5 viewfinder. Sort of OK, 80-90% sharp focus rate.
• Aliasing/Moiré is a problem, depends on subjects. In my case rippled water surface and sailboat rigs mean problems.
• DR is limited compared with modern Sony sensors.
• Somewhat problematic rendition of greens. You hate it or love it.
• Some Hasselblad lenses very good but some rather mediocre. All can deliver great images under the right circumstances
• For me it was a learning experience.
• I like to shoot with the Hasselblad, but few of the images make it to the wall. I guess it doesn't work for me but I don't know why.

Best regards
Erik

[BobShaw]

My experience is with the Phase One P45+ back on the Hasselblad 555/ELD. ....
I like to shoot with the Hasselblad, but few of the images make it to the wall. I guess it doesn't work for me but I don't know why.

You are not shooting with a Hasselblad and the parts that are Hasselblad are over a decade old.
Really old film cameras are interesting. Really old digital cameras are like really old computers and VHS cassette players.

[Graham Welland]

A CFV-16 or V mount Phase One P21, 30, 25+ will produce images with a different look to a modern DSLR. The biggest issue in my experience is that the on board battery may be dying/dead but otherwise image quality is still excellent and different.

Ignore the typical "use a D810/A7RII/5DIII/5Dsr" notes because they just don't understand ...

[Graham Welland]

You are not shooting with a Hasselblad and the parts that are Hasselblad are over a decade old.
Really old film cameras are interesting. Really old digital cameras are like really old computers and VHS cassette players.

I would beg to differ on this point. I wouldn't go to a tethered back but a later P+ or CFV have a different look. I started with a Kodak 645M and even now those images have a look that my dslr images lack.

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

Another consideration... only the cfv backs work natively on the v series.  Phase and leaf backs need an extra cable to trigger the sensor at the time the shutter fires.  Some people don't care...but just be aware.

[BernardLanguillier]

Ignore the typical "use a D810/A7RII/5DIII/5Dsr" notes because they just don't understand ...

You can ignore the "5DIII/5Dsr" notes for sure.

Rest assured that the image quality you are getting from your D810 at ISO64 with the best lenses is a challenge for any digital back, including the very latest ones.

So the notes about the D810 are relevant if you don't know why you are buying your MFDB for.

This being said, it is true that the combination of larger sensor (at least from 36x48mm onwards IMHO), higher resolution (in some cases), different lenses,... can result in a different look. It is true also that the large OVF of these MF bodies results in a shooting pleasures miles ahead of that of an EVF body. It is true also that the slower paced shooting can result in a different vision and relationship to the scene and subject.

Now, be aware also that focusing can be a challenge, that handheld shooting can be tough, that higher ISOs are poor, that may important functional goodies such as Auto-ISO are typically very basic, that...

Cheers,
Bernard

[Graham Welland]

Bernard

I don't disagree ... not better or worse, just different ...

(In full disclosure I shoot all of them - well not the Canon wannabes Everything from IQ3100, P25+, Aptus 65, A7RII, Nikon df, Leica M246, soon M10, RX100 IV, RX1rII plus xpan, Rollei 6008I2, Nikon F6 and even ... iPhone )