16 Bit Color for Hasselblad X1D but only 14 bit for Fuji GFX?

[wallpaperviking]

So have just stumbled across this thread again and can confirm that there are some extremely knowledgeable people on here (and that does not include me

So jumping ahead to guessing on the future Sony 33x44mm sensor 100mp sensor, do you guys think that this will contain 16 bits within it?

Thanks in advance!

[Jim Kasson]

So have just stumbled across this thread again and can confirm that there are some extremely knowledgeable people on here (and that does not include me

So jumping ahead to guessing on the future Sony 33x44mm sensor 100mp sensor, do you guys think that this will contain 16 bits within it?

If Sony can get the read noise down far enough, then I think we will see more precision. I expect that that they will add another bit to the ramp ADCs. Making them 16-bit would probably slow down the readout unacceptably, but they took that approach with the big 100MP chip, so they might do that again. Regardless of the actual conversion precision (15 vs 16 bits), they will probably chunk the data to 16 bits in uncompressed files -- they already did that with the 14-bit data in the a7RII. If we see a 33x44 100MP 15 or 16-bit sensor in a camera from Sony, they will probably extend the craw compression scheme to adapt to it, but I wish they would just do lossless compression and be done with it.

Jim

[BJL]

Does Jim or anyone else have an idea of the full-well capacity of the 50MP 44x33 or the 100MP 52x40mm Sony sensors, or other recent Sony sensors?

My guess is that Sony will stay at 16-bit output in all future DMF sensors, but I wonder if the 3.8 micron pixel pitch (14.5 square micron photosites) of 100MP in 44x33mm sensor will benefit form more than 14-bits, even with neglibible read noise.  How many bits are needed to report the exact count of every electron in a full well? (14 bits covers 16,384 electrons; 15 bits would cover up to 32,768, and so on.)

[Jim Kasson]

Does Jim or anyone else have an idea of the full-well capacity of the 50MP 44x33 or the 100MP 52x40mm Sony sensors, or other recent Sony sensors?

My guess is that Sony will stay at 16-bit output in all future DMF sensors, but I wonder if the 3.8 micron pixel pitch (14.5 square micron photosites) of 100MP in 44x33mm sensor will benefit form more than 14-bits, even with negligible read noise.  How many bits are needed to report the exact count of every electron in a full well? (14 bits covers 16,384 electrons; 15 bits would cover up to 32,768, and so on.)

FWC of the current GFX sensor is about 50000 electrons.  The RN is the key determinator  of the necessary precision until it drops to the point where you close to counting electrons, call that half an electron rms at base ISO. When we start getting to those kinds of noise levels, I get a little out of my depth. Eric Fossum is the expert there (and pretty much everywhere else, when it somes to CMOS sensors).

Jim

[BJL]

FWC of the current GFX sensor is about 50000 electrons.  The RN is the key determinator  of the necessary precision until it drops to the point where you close to counting electrons, call that half an electron rms at base ISO.

Thanks Jim. Is there a convenient reference for data like FWC and the base noise level? Is there any such data for recent Sony BSI sensors of similar pixel pitch (about 3.8 microns)  Fort this, I would ignore the unusual sensor in the new Sony A9, which reportedly has relatively high read noise and low DR at base ISO speed as the price of its very high speed read-out, according to DPReview at https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7266455439/sony-a9-real-world-iso-invariance-and-dynamic-range