Advanced B&W - Epson P800 vs Canon IPF 1000

[texshooter]

Does anybody have first hand experience comparing black and white prints with these two printers? Does the Canon have an equivalent ABW process to Epson's, or does Canon always use some color ink when laying down B&W prints?  Which of these two printers is better for black and white photography?

[Mark D Segal]

Check my reviews of both these printers on this website.

[unesco]

I was comparing BW for both printers before my decission. Both give outstanding results for BW prints.

I am not sure in what mode my Pro-1000 prints have been made (colour ICC or BW), but there was some color ink used when examining picture under magnification. The same stands for P800 in ABW. In both cases, color ink usage was marginal.
Perceptually, ABW mode in P800 have been improved compared to 3880 and gets closer to a look of QuadToneRip prints (in case of 3880 the difference was obvious).

I have also made some prints on P800 with ABW on matt papers, especially Hot Press and was surprised with quality improvement (what was also caused be the new black ink in P800, Pro-1000 has similar but more neutral. Epson inks are a little bit warm so more color toner is used for neutralisation. Personally I don't mind it since I do not like pure neutral look).

Epson gives you opportunity to use QTR for BW, which gives outstanding results. Canon allows for TrueBW application but I am not sure if Pro-1000 is supported and no PK/MK switch.

Finally, I have chosen P800, mostly due to QTR support, own recognised workflow for 3880, a little bit better behavior for matt papers, and possiblity to convert to Piezography inks in the future, but both are great printers.
Hope it helps.

[I.T. Supplies]

What Canon stated on their B&W mode is when you have any slight detail in the shadows or black areas, the Epson printer settings will try to provide the darkest black possible.  What happens when you have some detail in the dark area and the Epson printer will fill it in?!  Canon will still provide really nice deep black, but will also make sure you can get the full detail of what you see on the image.

Otherwise, it's really user preference as each person will see the quality differently.  It depends on how you want the print to look to decide which one is better.

[texshooter]

What happens when you have some detail in the dark area and the Epson printer will fill it in?!  Canon will still provide really nice deep black, but will also make sure you can get the full detail of what you see on the image.
Otherwise, it's really user preference as each person will see the quality differently.  It depends on how you want the print to look to decide which one is better.

Why would anyone want the printer to "fill in" the shadows, thus destroying the detail? I'd rather have control over that in post. I'll have to give Canon a looksie.

[unesco]

What Canon stated on their B&W mode is when you have any slight detail in the shadows or black areas, the Epson printer settings will try to provide the darkest black possible.  What happens when you have some detail in the dark area and the Epson printer will fill it in?!  Canon will still provide really nice deep black, but will also make sure you can get the full detail of what you see on the image.

It's not that bad with ABW, at least with P800 (in my opinion, it had changed compared to 3880).

Please have a look at curves I have posted here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=114068.msg941912#msg941912
also available on the net for older generaltions of Epsons. Shadow compression itself is not that bad - rather for lighter curves shadows are linear but mid tones gets too light... all depends on own preferations.

I was surprised on BW quality with P800 in ABW mode. Much better, perceptually for me, than 3880 ABW, maybe not QTR level but somewhere in between.