Leica

[Rob C]

Rob, I'd reply, but the truth is I haven't a clue what it is you're saying.

What is it you think I'm doing that is in any way like using a cellphone?

Oh - holding it up out in front of you to see the rear screen. I used to try that with my cellphone and couldn't even see the image if I was outdoors. Maybe you can see the image on a real camera that way, but I have to have it up at my eye to feel right. Gotta blank out everything else to feel connected. Even using a WLF on the 500 Series wasn't on: always had the 45° prism fitted. BUT, but, having a tiny bit extra around the actual image, as per an old M-type seems a jolly good idea if working in a crowded area. Having said which, I wonder why they just used corner markings, and wanted you to guess where the rest of the sides were...

[Rob C]

Ah -  Now I understand, you think I'm using the LCD screen as a viewfinder! Really, Rob, can you see me walking around with the camera held at arm's length chimping the rear screen?

When not using the rangefinder I use the EVF (electronic viewfinder) not the LCD (rear screen). What I see in the EVF viewfinder comes directly from the sensor, composition, focus, DOF. Focus is aided by normal magnification, or 5x or 10x magnification. Focus peaking is also enabled. Exposure and histogram can be monitored prior to capture.

I'd hazard a guess that at least half the contributors here on LuLa use EVF enabled cameras.

Well, it was a difficult concept to get my head around, but it's what I thought you meant.

As for the rest of the possibilities you mentioned, off a tripod they would stop me in my tracks. For me, in amateur mode, it's see, snap, move rapidly onwards. Anything more considered would keep me doing alternatives such as, well, more varnishing which, believe it or not, I still have not finished this year! I  have the doings all out on the terrace, and had switched on the new washing machine on its rapid cycle (two hours, last time I tried it) and now, about twenty minutes past that magical pair of hours, it's still running! It mocks me. So, the varnishing of the kitchen shutters is still on hold, and the clouds are gathering above again, and the air will probably now be too damp to apply varnish. No wonder I sit and write or go out and wage visual war on the windows around me. What's left?

;-)

Rob

[Rob C]

Rob, why is it you think this wouldn't be possible with an EVF? This is exactly how I shoot 'street'. I'd go as far as saying this is how the majority now shoot 'street'.

I thought we'd discussed this many times off-list and that you had understood electronic viewfinders?

Hope the washing machine has finished.

But Keith, I do understand EVF; my point was, and has even been restated as reply to your question, that I had imagined, from your description, that you were looking at the rear screen as with a cellphone...

But in reality, an EVF on an M Leica is just an admission from Leica that the raw, basic - as in normal, unassisted - viewfinder isn't much cock. True, the prisms of my D200 and D700 are not very good at the best of times either, compared with the one on my F3, but with the excellent magnifier permanently fitted to both, the only real drawback is Rob C's own eyesight; trust him on that.

Yes, the washing machine's done its thing, but it ran half an hour longer than the previous rapid selection... no idea why. Also, I got half the inside surface of the kitchen shutters done! The next half and all of the outer faces of both halfs tomorrow, DV.

;-)

Rob

[RSL]

Hi Keith, You're making it clear that you're like the rest of the modern Leica buffs. It's a religion. Has nothing much to do with photography. But I can understand it. I pretty much felt the same way about my M4. Wasn't quite as protective of my M2's reputation or of my IIIf's reputation, but the M4 was my baby. I wouldn't allow anyone to besmirch its reputation.

[Rob C]

I'm not a fan of Mr Eggleston, but on one point I support his attitude fully: take one snap and move on. Deliberation's for commerce, for covering your ass and letting the client feel he has an input when he 'helps' edit the work. Gut reaction is key. Trust it above all else in photography.

But back to the thread: wasn't it about daft, red camera skins rather than what lies beneath? For myself, I've repeatedly stated I'd love an M9 upwards, and at least two guys whose work I respect have told me it may not suit me. So, why still hanker? Because as I said elsewhere, it's part of the photo ritual I feel I missed out on (religion, then?), and this late in the day I would like to make amends to myself. But, not just at any cost.

;-)

Rob C

[eronald]

I'm not a fan of Mr Eggleston, but on one point I support his attitude fully: take one snap and move on. Deliberation's for commerce, for covering your ass and letting the client feel he has an input when he 'helps' edit the work. Gut reaction is key. Trust it above all else in photography.

But back to the thread: wasn't it about daft, red camera skins rather than what lies beneath? For myself, I've repeatedly stated I'd love an M9 upwards, and at least two guys whose work I respect have told me it may not suit me. So, why still hanker? Because as I said elsewhere, it's part of the photo ritual I feel I missed out on (religion, then?), and this late in the day I would like to make amends to myself. But, not just at any cost.

;-)

Rob C

M8s are not very reliable, but very cheap. The problem is that they need good eyesight or a loupe to focus.

Edmund

[mbaginy]

The cover looks like Judd Trump's shoes!  Different, for sure.

[Telecaster]

M8s are not very reliable, but very cheap. The problem is that they need good eyesight or a loupe to focus.

The 8.2 refresh is more reliable, shutter-wise anyway. My 8.2s are working fine & dandy, but I've become so fond of my little Panasonic GX8 that I haven't put 'em to work as much as I oughta. Focusing is fine in use, though the effective RF baselength is a little shorter than with most 35mm format Ms. A 90mm f/2 (~120mm "equivalent") used wide open at closer distances is pushing it similarly to the way a 135mm used the same way is pushing it on a "full frame" Leica. Some aspects of the UI are downright clunky. In aperture priority mode, for example, setting exposure compensation requires menu diving. Grrr… (This is fixed with more recent Ms.) So I use manual mode instead, which IMO feels more natural with an M camera.

-Dave-

[Rob C]

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=martine%20franck%20imagenes&&form=IDIVXX

;-)

Rob

[Telecaster]

There is no way to see DOF.

The irony of this for me is that most of the deliberately shallow DOF photos I've taken have been with rangefinders. I never use DOF preview on SLRs/mirrorless cameras either. Don't need it.

(The attached example pic is just one I have handy on my iPad. Zeiss Jena LTM 85/2 Sonnar stopped down a  little.)

-Dave-

[Rob C]

Rules, exceptions... much of this depends, too, on the way we work and why.

I've noticed that for quite a long time now I am shooting almost wide open. Apart from the plasticity that that seems to give my pics, it's also a kind of reaction to professional life, where travel meant that clients wanted to see the benefits of the cost: in other words, if you want to go to an expensive beach, we want to see the sea and sand pretty damned clearly too... Hans Feurer would have had problems with some of my guys, as would Sarah Moon! Free of that (unfortunate sort of freedom, really), there's also the fact that shallow DOF helps concentrate both the mind and the message. Capa used to say that it your shots weren't good enough it was because you weren't close enough; I'd add that maybe you're are also shooting stopped down too far and confusing the issue you want to portray with too much background!

Rob

P.S.

Goodness, this is a lonely place this morning: only seventeen of us alive?

[JV]

And I base my judgment regarding Leica's current stuff partly on the lack of autofocus, but also on their absurd prices for equipment that simply doesn't beat the other top-of-the-line digital stuff on the market.

The autofocus on my Leica Q works just fine thank you... And the one on my Leica SL is equally good...

And besides that I assume you have used a Leica, Sony, Fuji, etc alongside each other to reach you expert conclusions...

Please continue to delight us with your detailed knowledge!

[Telecaster]

Goodness, this is a lonely place this morning: only seventeen of us alive?

Could be the Americans who are also baseball fans were thoroughly spent after watching the amazing & thrilling Game 7 of the just-concluded Fall Classic (aka the World Series). One of the most intense & exciting games I've ever seen. Cubs win!! (First time in 108 years.)

Edit: Mike Johnston at The Online Photographer has a funny Onion-like satirical piece on the Cubs ending their long drought. 

-Dave-

[Rob C]

Could be the Americans who are also baseball fans were thoroughly spent after watching the amazing & thrilling Game 7 of the just-concluded Fall Classic (aka the World Series). One of the most intense & exciting games I've ever seen. Cubs win!! (First time in 108 years.)

Edit: Mike Johnston at The Online Photographer has a funny Onion-like satirical piece on the Cubs ending their long drought. 

-Dave-

Ah Dave, as with Brexit, sport's one of those things I shall never understand.

Grown men running around like small boys, and getting very rich the while. Injustice I tell you, a travesty of the natural order!

;-)

Rob

[Telecaster]

Grown men running around like small boys, and getting very rich the while. Injustice I tell you, a travesty of the natural order!

;-)

Talent redistributing wealth from capital hoarders! If I were an economist of a certain bent I might look it it that way.    Anyway I think baseball is becoming in the US more of a niche sport, not economically but in the national psyche, while the US version of football has supplanted it as "the national passtime."

-Dave-

[Rob C]

Talent redistributing wealth from capital hoarders! If I were an economist of a certain bent I might look it it that way.    Anyway I think baseball is becoming in the US more of a niche sport, not economically but in the national psyche, while the US version of football has supplanted it as "the national passtime."

-Dave-

Baseball. Strikes me as a safer version of the game I used to play as a younger person in India: gilli dandu(a). It consisted of taking a piece of branch about three or four inches long (the size is based on youthful conceptions of size, where two inches could get you respect) and whittling it sharp at both ends. This done, you would strike one end of this short, sharp piece as it lay on the ground, using another piece of branch as club. This had the effect of forcing the short piece to spring upwards into the air. If it didn't immediately lodge itself in your eye, you would consequently strike it in mid-air and send it hurtling outwards towards the other players who would then attempt to catch this spinning machine in fight. What's a ball after that?

Old worlds, old ways...

Rob

[Telecaster]

Just Googled "Gilli-danda" (as the internet spells it). Looks fun, especially if you've got protective eye wear (glasses since age 12 here).    In Scotland I learned how to play rounders before I even knew what baseball was. (In 1963 & '64 my mom and I spent the entire summer in & near Glasgow, Dad only showing up for a couple weeks at the end of September. Both times I went home with a thick brogue unintelligible to children & adults alike in my Detroit-area neighborhood. I have some movie footage of myself where I'm apparently speaking Scots dialect, but there's no sound!)

-Dave-

[Rob C]

Just Googled "Gilli-danda" (as the internet spells it). Looks fun, especially if you've got protective eye wear (glasses since age 12 here).    In Scotland I learned how to play rounders before I even knew what baseball was. (In 1963 & '64 my mom and I spent the entire summer in & near Glasgow, Dad only showing up for a couple weeks at the end of September. Both times I went home with a thick brogue unintelligible to children & adults alike in my Detroit-area neighborhood. I have some movie footage of myself where I'm apparently speaking Scots dialect, but there's no sound!)

-Dave-

Trust me: that's an advantage. Lip-reading is more accurate. I bet you didn't know at the time that I was only a few miles away! Knowing that might have changed your life. Or not. But I might have had a guitar lesson out of it...

;-)

Rob

[Telecaster]

I bet you didn't know at the time that I was only a few miles away! Knowing that might have changed your life. Or not. But I might have had a guitar lesson out of it...

How 'bout that!    It would've been a ukulele lesson if anything! I had a plastic one made by the Maccaferri company, started & owned by the fellow who designed the original Selmer "gypsy jazz" guitars later used by Django Reinhardt and other luminaries. Wish I still had it. But I do have a polystyrene Maccaferri guitar. Plays great and sounds kinda like a banjo would if a banjo had more bass response.

I've attached a photo of this morning's sunrise, not taken with a Leica. But it is a photo!

-Dave-

[Rob C]

How 'bout that!    It would've been a ukulele lesson if anything! I had a plastic one made by the Maccaferri company, started & owned by the fellow who designed the original Selmer "gypsy jazz" guitars later used by Django Reinhardt and other luminaries. Wish I still had it. But I do have a polystyrene Maccaferri guitar. Plays great and sounds kinda like a banjo would if a banjo had more bass response.

I've attached a photo of this morning's sunrise, not taken with a Leica. But it is a photo!

-Dave-

A uke is still better than nothing. I'd have settled for that!

Regarding the picture: it's rather good, and clearly a 'photograph'.

;-)

Rob