Nikon in difficulty?

[Manoli]

... but I think that, worse comes the worse, many Nikon users would be able to continue to use their current equipment successfully while investing in a Sony a7r4 if they really need to.

Applies to just about every camera out there today, not limited to just Nikon.

[BernardLanguillier]

Applies to just about every camera out there today, not limited to just Nikon.

Indeed. So no need to worry too much.

Cheers,
Bernard

[chez]

Can not agree. If what you say is true, how does Leica survive as a company?

Again, there seems to be confusion of biggest most diverse company and best class dslr product.

Leica survives because it's a niche product priced very high. Nikon as a company is not that. It's a consumer driven company  when the consumers start going away...the revenues start dropping...like is happening today.

[eronald]

Leica survives because it's a niche product priced very high. Nikon as a company is not that. It's a consumer driven company  when the consumers start going away...the revenues start dropping...like is happening today.

niche product priced very high is a good description of Nikon's enthusiast and pro products. And Canon's actually.

Edmund

[Rhossydd]

The 5 system comment was of course not needed, irrelevant and plain wrong...

Indeed.

but it may in fact be true for a majority of people in these forums if they prioritized spending on cameras instead of spending money otherwise

Then you go and loose your credibility further.

Probably best not to make any further comment now.

[chez]

niche product priced very high is a good description of Nikon's enthusiast and pro products. And Canon's actually.

Edmund

Yes, but Canon and Nikon are much larger companies and require much greater revenue than what can be achieved by a niche product.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Nikon is dead 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Yes, but Canon and Nikon are much larger companies and require much greater revenue than what can be achieved by a niche product.

While true, their niche is still quite large compared to others ...

Cheers,
Bart

[Zorki5]

While true, their niche is still quite large compare to others ...

Speaking of niche products, Nikon and Leica are actually like...

Heck, Slobodan just showed up! So I'll have to refrain from comparisons with automotive industry. 

Oh and BTW, Leica's Andreas Kaufmann already thinks Nikon has one foot in the grave:

Some have already withdrawn, like Samsung, others already have a foot in the grave. (Silence) I really do not want this to happen that way, because as a historical actor we do not want to see a long-time companion pass away, even if it’s a rival. But if they do not move fast enough, I greatly fear for their future. What is certain is that Leica will never enter the action cam market.

Emphasis' mine (an indirect reference specifically to Nikon; or, if I may, as direct as we can expect from Leica's boss).

[BernardLanguillier]

Speaking of niche products, Nikon and Leica are actually like...

Heck, Slobodan just showed up! So I'll have to refrain from comparisons with automotive industry. 

Oh and BTW, Leica's Andreas Kaufmann already thinks Nikon has one foot in the grave:

Emphasis' mine (an indirect reference specifically to Nikon; or, if I may, as direct as we can expect from Leica's boss).

At the same time they made the X-U...

Leica was, not that long ago, in a far worse business, technology and product line up situation that Nikon currently is. The only think they had left was pretty much a brand. Nikon does have that as well.

Btw, is Leica in such a great position today?
- The S is caught in a very competitive market with much cheaper, lighter, compact MF mirrorless cameras, high end DSLRs with similar image quality (much better AF, more lenses options,...) and real MF cameras with larger sensors that end up not being much more expensive after a few lenses are added to the mix. The S income has been critical for Leica and its future is IMHO clearly at risk. It is really incoherent to call the Canon and Nikon DSLR dead but the Leica S alive with its bulkier looks and outdated sensor. Is someone going to follow if Leica releases a new set of lenses for an hypothetical mirrorless S? I don't think so, the system is just too new,
- few people still believe a new M body would bring anything since the current one already can't be focused reliably anywhere near its resolution potential,
- the SL is pretty much the only Leica with a future, but they manage to make the body huge and native lenses larger than DSLR one costing twice less and just as good optically,
- the Q is great but doesn't generate system revenue

So is Leica really in such a great position?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Manoli]

- The S is caught in a very competitive market with much cheaper, lighter, compact MF mirrorless cameras, ...

And of course you forget to mention that one can mount, and auto-focus, just about any MF lens in existence on it.

It is really incoherent to call the Canon and Nikon DSLR dead but the Leica S alive with its bulkier looks and outdated sensor.

The Leica exhibition at Photokina said enough .. and who/what makes you think that when they're ready the S won't morph into a mirrorless version ( though I agree that currently doing so will eat into the SL market - something that they're keen to avoid)

- few people still believe a new M body would bring anything since the current one already can't be focused reliably anywhere near its resolution potential,

As though Leica couldn't transform the M into a pure mirrorless cam, simply by dropping the rangefinder and upping the EVF/LCD ...

- the SL is pretty much the only Leica with a future, but they manage to make the body huge and native lenses larger than DSLR one costing twice less and just as good optically,

Yes, and thanks to Novoflex, there are now AF adapters for both Canon and Nikon lenses - all of a sudden the choices just got a whole lot bigger. Add in 4K motion, the best EVF out there, your make-or-break dual SD slots, all in a robust package and the SL has become a whole lot more versatile than it was at launch.

So is Leica really in such a great position?

Depends on their next steps, as it does with Nikon, but it does seem as though they're a step ahead.

[chez]

While true, their niche is still quite large compared to others ...

Cheers,
Bart

Sure...but their overhead is much much larger than a smaller structured niche company. I don't believe either Nikon or Canon want to shrink down in size to enable survival on niche revenues.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Sure...but their overhead is much much larger than a smaller structured niche company.

Not so sure about that. As a percentage of total operating cost (or of revenue), they may even have lower overhead for similar activities (economy of scale benefits).

Cheers,
Bart

[BernardLanguillier]

The 14-24 and 70-200 and still excellent in absolute terms but are both due for an update in the coming months. It would be logical to expect their successors to be best in class. Rumors point to a 70-200 in Nov together with the 19mm T/S.

Coming soon is seems: http://nikonrumors.com/2016/10/03/two-new-nikon-lenses-to-be-announced-soon-nikkor-pc-19mm-f4e-ed-and-70-200mm-f2-8e-fl-ed-vr.aspx/

Cheers,
Bernard

[pluton]

Betamax was the forerunner of BetaCam and BetaCam SP which was THE standard of the industry for video acquisition up until the advent of HD.  VHS was the forerunner of the professional video format, M2, which as far as I could tell, no one wanted. No one ever called asking to book an M2 crew for a shoot, but everyone called asking for BetaCam SP.

Didn't NBC buy M2, and stick with it for eight or ten years?

[BernardLanguillier]

Coming real soon it seems.

http://nikonrumors.com/2016/10/18/nikon-announcement-tonight-us-pricing-and-availability-for-the-two-new-nikkor-lenses.aspx/

Prices are, as expected, high. Comments from Japan are that the 19mm has corner image quality when shifted that is un-heard of with T/S lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

[alan_b]

Coming real soon it seems.

http://nikonrumors.com/2016/10/18/nikon-announcement-tonight-us-pricing-and-availability-for-the-two-new-nikkor-lenses.aspx/

Prices are, as expected, high. Comments from Japan are that the 19mm has corner image quality when shifted that is un-heard of with T/S lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

Looks like they finally decoupled tilt/shift orientation too!

[BernardLanguillier]

Looks like they finally decoupled tilt/shift orientation too!

Yep.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3325753199/nikon-announces-ultra-wide-pc-nikkor-19mm-f4e-ed-tilt-shift-lens
https://www.dpreview.com/news/6274771226/redesigned-nikon-70-200-f2-8-arrives-with-improved-optics-and-electromagnetic-diaphragm

These look like pretty decent lenses for a company that is dying. I'll probably get both instead of a Hassy lens...

In Tokyo the 19mm will be available in 9 days while the 70-200 will be available by 11-Nov. I am planning to put my 70-200 f4 for sales. It is great optically but a bit slow AF wise.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Zorki5]

These look like pretty decent lenses for a company that is dying.

Well, the lenses do seem to be pretty good, and yet whether or not Nikon is dying does not have to correlate with the quality of their lenses in any way.

One of Parkinson's Laws (I wish it would be known better / by more people...) states that:

Perfection of planned layout is only achieved by institutions on the point of collapse.

[kers]

Yep.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3325753199/nikon-announces-ultra-wide-pc-nikkor-19mm-f4e-ed-tilt-shift-lens
https://www.dpreview.com/news/6274771226/redesigned-nikon-70-200-f2-8-arrives-with-improved-optics-and-electromagnetic-diaphragm

These look like pretty decent lenses for a company that is dying. I'll probably get both instead of a Hassy lens...

In Tokyo the 19mm will be available in 9 days while the 70-200 will be available by 11-Nov. I am planning to put my 70-200 f4 for sales. It is great optically but a bit slow AF wise.

Cheers,
Bernard

Two very expensive lenses! - i am looking forward to see the test results and try to get my hands on them.
For me the 70-200 is good enough as it is. The 19mm could be interesting if it lives up to its price.